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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio now here's

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gene Steinberg so we return on the power

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cast this week chris is back with us and

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we've also as the panelists kind of

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roped in or persuaded Jerome Clarke to

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rejoin us and we are really glad to have

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you back Jerry oh thank you looking

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forward to it

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well the topic of our discussion it's a

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new book but it's not a book about a

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recent event it's a book about an event

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shall we say a possible UFO abduction

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that more or less went under the radar

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that occurred back in 1959 two years

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before Barney and Betty Hill occurred

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and so we got a hold of a book here from

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David Bowie called

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no return the Jerry Erwin story UFO

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abduction or covert operation David

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very briefly before we get into what

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attracted you to this story how did you

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get interested in covering UFOs honestly

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I had no plans of doing such a thing

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I've always been interested in the

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subject

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but this one took me by surprise I have

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to say how so well when it was a story

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that I had read previously in years past

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it was in Jacques valets book dimensions

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also in passport to ladonia

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and uh it was one of so many stories in

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those books and recall being struck by

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it the way I was when I read it again

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and I guess that was 20 to 30 2013

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for some reason it wouldn't let me go

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and it was a very strange feeling I

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somehow I just decided I had to find out

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what happened because the end of the

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story as it was known then as it was

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published in valets book was that I

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don't know if I'm jumping ahead here but

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as the story was published before him

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Jerry Erwin after a series of strange

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behavioral problems following into

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Coppola then disappeared ever to be

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deserted this post you know I think it's

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important also David because most people

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haven't heard of this story as I said

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it's something that has gone under the

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radar it's one of thousands of stories

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that get mentioned in books but doesn't

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get a lot of coverage and I think we

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should really kind of start at the

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beginning here that okay

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you heard read about this in valets

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books and byway shock filet wrote the

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foreword to this book and then you

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decide to dig into it but before you

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even started to dig in you are obviously

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reading a lot about UFOs have you ever

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seen one yourself

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of course I've seen things I couldn't

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identify

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but whether I've ever seen a genuine

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unknown is another matter I I would say

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not not that I could actually say that's

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an a genuine unknown what god you just

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start reading about UFOs though I've

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just always been interested in the

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subject since I was quite young in all

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the unexplained things in life and uh

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you know from ghosts and other

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unexplained phenomena to UFOs and I'm

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not sure why it's just part of just the

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okay so you seized upon this story you

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got interested but I think we need to

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back up here tell us more about Jerry

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Erwin okay

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briefly the story as it was known before

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my recent research was that there was a

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young soldier named Jerry Irwin who was

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be turning from his leave he had a

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30-day leave from his army posted at

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Fort Bliss Texas he was driving through

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Utah southern Utah at night in a late

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winter on a way late winter night was

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fairly cold on a fairly quiet Highway

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and he saw a strange object a glowing

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object coming down out of the sky and he

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watched in amazement as it seemed to be

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coming down to the ground but it was

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fairly slow and by the time it

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disappeared from view over a nearby

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Ridge he was already stopped and out of

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his vehicle watching him and

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interestingly it's although it seemed to

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crash very close by it didn't make any

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sound at all except there was all he

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noticed was a flare-up of light that

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then died down and he got out he decided

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to investigate he wrote a note for

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passers-by to say that asked for people

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to send for help from the police

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and then he wrote in large letters on

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the stop side of his car he rolled stop

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issue polish and at that point he he

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just trudged off into the snow to where

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it looked like this thing has landed and

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shortly after that he lost consciousness

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and the next thing he knows he's waking

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up in a hospital 24 hours later with no

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yeah yeah this is Chris welcome to the

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show

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and as you may or may not be aware

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southern Utah in recent years has been

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quite a hotbed of activity and I'm kind

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of wondering what highway he was on was

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the highway 50 going from like say rifle

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Colorado through vernal that area to

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Salt Lake or was it further down was he

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on 70 or I think it would probably be I

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don't think 70 was there actually in 59

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now that I'm thinking about it do you

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know that the highway that he was on the

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nearest town he was well he was getting

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close to Cedar City and he took a cut

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off on highway 20 from I think it was

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highway 80 or highway 91 at that time it

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is now I interstate what's name that

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interstate lose 15 that goes down to

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Vegas yeah and he was taking the cutoff

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on 20 over to 89 and it was on that was

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a section of highway on highway 20 where

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he was found by rescuers okay yeah

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that's a very interesting area I just

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wanted our listeners to get a you know a

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geographic sense of where this allegedly

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occurred Thanks

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yeah I would say technically that's

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probably southwest Utah and

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yes I'm aware that there are a lot of

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interesting cases from that area and

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more recently I have written read the

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book called the 37th parallel and I'm

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not sure what to make of that I don't

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know oh don't get me started on it I

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mean I without weighing in on the

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validity of that observation of that

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argument I was just a little bit it did

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kind of catch me because the fact that

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this event in particular was right in

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that zone it was like 37 point something

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hey let's continue this in our next

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segment okay Jean and Chris we have

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David Bowie author of no return we're

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joined by Jerome Clark and I brought him

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on because I want to get his historical

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perspective so Jerry in our next segment

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perhaps if you have questions to move it

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along we'd like to hear from you with

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we also have swag you know we have all

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these exclusive para cast things that

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you can buy we've got like I guess 60 or

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so different items and entails t-shirts

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tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

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jackets and stuff like that for men and

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women we have a para cast aluminum water

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bottle all the stuff you go to store . ^

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what makes it special is that the items

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in multiple sizes and colors

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we even have stuff for children stuff

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for women's stuff for men we have all

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sorts of sizes like small up 2x large

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lot good stuff that's the swag from the

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stop by and take a shopping tour are you

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tired of paying fees and commissions to

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that other site I know you are and I'm

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here to tell you about a great

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alternative to sell your stuff

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buy sell make offer.com is the best

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selling site to ever come along it

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doesn't matter what you're selling big

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or small it's easier than ever and you

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can use skype to show your items and get

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can see that you are for real no more

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blind trusts and you're not limited to

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snapshots you can video what you're

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selling to better sell it fast for as

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little as nine ninety-five and that's

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after a free 30 days you can sell

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everything you no longer want with

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absolutely no fees ever go right now to

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of a community of buyers and sellers who

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have already discovered this

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that's buy sell make offered.com you'll

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never regret making the switch

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buy sell make offer.com so what are you

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North Korea openly threatens the US and

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launches a new missile every other week

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their warhead of choice electromagnetic

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pulse

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such an event would [\h__\h] the u.s.

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power grid for years and leave millions

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in the dark are you ready you can be

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with a so large EMP hardened solar

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generator so lark works day in and day

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out to keep all of your essentials

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protected that means you can have peace

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of mind knowing your power will be there

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when you most need it visit seoul arc

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dot us to see EMP testing that's so lark

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dot US energy insurance for your family

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are you happy washing your hands with

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harsh chemicals are you happy doing

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laundry with detergents are you happy

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paying high prices find your happiness

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with pure soap these all-natural earth

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or 48 month's supply or get items

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individually and still save big you're

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getting soap products twice as good as

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what you're using now earth friendly and

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natural soaps your family deserves the

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happiness is five-star soap calm why not

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put your money up the drain for a change

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see them at five star soap calm or call

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dollars and give you good old-fashioned

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real soaps that are triple concentrated

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soaps made from vegetable and coconut

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oils see their full selection of soaps

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at five star soap calm that's f IV e

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star soap calm or call one eight hundred

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three four zero seven zero nine one four

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eight catalog is that Ellen pending her

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garage yesterday she was trimming her

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hedges what's her secret I heard she was

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eating this new super berry called the

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aronia berry Romeo what Ronia berries

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from super berries calm they're known

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for having one of the highest levels of

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antioxidants that helps with overall

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wellness go to super berries comm slash

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radio and right now we get a free

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we can say four dollars a check out I

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can't wait

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I've got lots of projects I need to get

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done yes you do choose health eat purple

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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

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comment or question about the para cast

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sent it to news at the para cast com

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that's news at the para cast calm and

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don't forget to visit our famous para

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offer the after the para cast podcast

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which last week had a pretty spirited

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discussion continuing what started in

281
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our teen UFO researcher episode that was

282
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between Allen Greenfield and Jerome

283
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Clark so it gets really really

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com David Bowie is the author of no

290
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return the Jerry Irwin's story was at a

291
00:15:12,180 --> 00:15:09,670
UFO abduction or covert operation as we

292
00:15:14,100 --> 00:15:12,190
nailed down the location here the part

293
00:15:18,030 --> 00:15:14,110
you've told us so far that he's on the

294
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road and rescue workers recover him and

295
00:15:30,390 --> 00:15:20,200
he doesn't remember what happened for 24

296
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hours didn't know anything about how he

297
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got to the hospital all he knew was that

298
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he went he started off on foot looking

299
00:15:42,330 --> 00:15:39,790
for this thing and then it was just all

300
00:15:45,660 --> 00:15:42,340
a blank after that until he woke up in

301
00:15:49,380 --> 00:15:45,670
the hospital so everything else we know

302
00:15:51,570 --> 00:15:49,390
about that time period comes from the

303
00:15:54,330 --> 00:15:51,580
sheriff and the doctor that was treating

304
00:15:58,530 --> 00:15:54,340
him and the other personnel that were

305
00:16:00,350 --> 00:15:58,540
attending him Jerry you've read the book

306
00:16:03,090 --> 00:16:00,360
and you're certainly acquainted with

307
00:16:08,220 --> 00:16:03,100
what's gone on in that part of the

308
00:16:10,350 --> 00:16:08,230
universe here in terms of UFOs do you

309
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:10,360
have something you'd like to ask David

310
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:11,610
about this

311
00:16:18,260 --> 00:16:15,570
well I just make a comment or two here

312
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:18,270
one is that I vividly remember the

313
00:16:23,270 --> 00:16:21,090
Lorenz ins article and I have certainly

314
00:16:26,180 --> 00:16:23,280
forgotten much more than I remember

315
00:16:30,410 --> 00:16:26,190
about UFOs but they published article in

316
00:16:32,990 --> 00:16:30,420
flying saucers magazine in 1962 which I

317
00:16:35,950 --> 00:16:33,000
read and thought was so enthralling that

318
00:16:41,030 --> 00:16:35,960
it is stuck in my memory ever since and

319
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:41,040
I was just astounded and June I was

320
00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:43,170
speaking at the floor test near

321
00:16:48,380 --> 00:16:45,120
Baltimore I was rooming there with

322
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Patrick riche who is David's publisher

323
00:16:54,650 --> 00:16:51,600
and I asked Patrick you know what books

324
00:16:56,450 --> 00:16:54,660
he was going to be issuing in the near

325
00:16:59,030 --> 00:16:56,460
future and he mentioned a book on the

326
00:17:02,750 --> 00:16:59,040
Terri Irwin case and I nearly fell over

327
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:02,760
I could hardly wait to read it and I'm

328
00:17:07,100 --> 00:17:04,530
just really impressed with the work that

329
00:17:09,710 --> 00:17:07,110
David did and this is really a very

330
00:17:12,860 --> 00:17:09,720
interesting book I also want to say

331
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:12,870
something to that is sort of secondary

332
00:17:18,350 --> 00:17:14,730
to this but it struck me as someone

333
00:17:22,370 --> 00:17:18,360
who's been like Eugene in this field a

334
00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:22,380
long time and that is David's tribute to

335
00:17:28,460 --> 00:17:26,160
Jim and Carl Lorenza about in their

336
00:17:31,790 --> 00:17:28,470
prime what good investigators they were

337
00:17:33,740 --> 00:17:31,800
and also decent human beings who cared

338
00:17:35,870 --> 00:17:33,750
about the welfare of the people that

339
00:17:38,270 --> 00:17:35,880
they were they were interviewing in his

340
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:38,280
stories they were investigating the

341
00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:40,290
lorenz ins are really the hero of the

342
00:17:45,380 --> 00:17:42,480
story along with Jerry Erwin himself

343
00:17:48,230 --> 00:17:45,390
just for surviving it all and going on

344
00:17:51,050 --> 00:17:48,240
instead of vanishing mysteriously going

345
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:51,060
on to live a good and productive and

346
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:54,810
apparently happy life and David captures

347
00:17:59,510 --> 00:17:56,970
all that in the book it's really quite

348
00:18:02,150 --> 00:17:59,520
eye-opening and I'll have more to say

349
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:02,160
about the content later but that was my

350
00:18:05,630 --> 00:18:04,050
initial impression I was just going

351
00:18:07,970 --> 00:18:05,640
through the book again I read it last

352
00:18:10,190 --> 00:18:07,980
week I was doing prepping for the show

353
00:18:13,460 --> 00:18:10,200
and I was going through the book again

354
00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:13,470
and being reminded of its many virtues

355
00:18:20,030 --> 00:18:16,110
and I will be reviewing it for fourteen

356
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:20,040
times magazine David you want to respond

357
00:18:24,780 --> 00:18:23,090
before we go into the story further

358
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:24,790
because

359
00:18:31,380 --> 00:18:26,290
that was an important thing for me to

360
00:18:35,100 --> 00:18:31,390
convey the because I as I investigated

361
00:18:38,460 --> 00:18:35,110
the story and I received more

362
00:18:40,530 --> 00:18:38,470
information as it went along I just

363
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:40,540
gained more and more respect for the for

364
00:18:49,470 --> 00:18:45,090
the Lorenz ins and just their overall

365
00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:49,480
contribution as well as getting some

366
00:18:57,300 --> 00:18:53,710
insight into their personalities and

367
00:19:01,710 --> 00:18:57,310
their I guess maybe the word humanity

368
00:19:05,310 --> 00:19:01,720
their their sense of their compassion

369
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:05,320
for for a young man who was going

370
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:10,000
through a terrible ordeal so I I'm glad

371
00:19:14,820 --> 00:19:13,210
that came across okay let's get back to

372
00:19:19,380 --> 00:19:14,830
the hospital here it's gonna throw this

373
00:19:23,820 --> 00:19:19,390
story here so he wakes up 24 hours have

374
00:19:29,940 --> 00:19:23,830
gone with no memory so what does he do

375
00:19:32,820 --> 00:19:29,950
that well he's he tells of course the

376
00:19:35,730 --> 00:19:32,830
sheriff is grilling him for information

377
00:19:38,940 --> 00:19:35,740
because he's just been through a pretty

378
00:19:43,230 --> 00:19:38,950
stressful 24 hours because he's he's

379
00:19:46,650 --> 00:19:43,240
been notified of a possible as as Jerry

380
00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:46,660
had written on his note he was concerned

381
00:19:55,050 --> 00:19:49,510
it could be a plane crash and that was

382
00:19:57,690 --> 00:19:55,060
that was and that's why he was asking

383
00:19:59,880 --> 00:19:57,700
people to notify authorities and so now

384
00:20:01,620 --> 00:19:59,890
the sheriff was trying to figure out

385
00:20:06,180 --> 00:20:01,630
well was there a plane crash did you

386
00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:06,190
really see something they even though

387
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:07,510
they didn't see anything on the ground

388
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:10,450
the next day they there was a an aerial

389
00:20:17,070 --> 00:20:13,810
search that didn't turn up anything so

390
00:20:19,380 --> 00:20:17,080
the sheriff wanted to as soon as Jerry

391
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:19,390
woke up the sheriff was on him with it

392
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:21,130
all his questions but Jerry just had

393
00:20:27,660 --> 00:20:24,490
very little information to offer he can

394
00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:27,670
he can only remember setting off on foot

395
00:20:38,990 --> 00:20:34,620
so the articles that came out after

396
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:39,000
Jerry woke up the newspaper articles

397
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:41,650
added very little information to the

398
00:20:48,780 --> 00:20:46,330
record like you know basically he just

399
00:20:51,780 --> 00:20:48,790
all he could say was well he was taking

400
00:20:57,360 --> 00:20:51,790
a shortcut on his way back from leave

401
00:21:07,040 --> 00:20:57,370
and and that's what happened to him how

402
00:21:10,620 --> 00:21:07,050
did he try to get his memories back he

403
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:10,630
at first he I don't think he was very

404
00:21:14,700 --> 00:21:13,690
interested at first I think he really

405
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:14,710
just wanted to put the whole thing

406
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:17,170
behind him

407
00:21:22,230 --> 00:21:19,810
but he kept having problems once he

408
00:21:26,820 --> 00:21:22,240
returned to duty he kept having

409
00:21:32,780 --> 00:21:26,830
blackouts spells of unconsciousness and

410
00:21:35,490 --> 00:21:32,790
amnesia and and then the Lorenz ins

411
00:21:38,610 --> 00:21:35,500
around that time gotten got in contact

412
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:38,620
with him and although at first he was

413
00:21:45,180 --> 00:21:41,440
reluctant to speak with them he started

414
00:21:47,910 --> 00:21:45,190
opening up once the he kind of they

415
00:21:49,610 --> 00:21:47,920
reassured him that you know they weren't

416
00:21:53,540 --> 00:21:49,620
trying to get him in trouble with his

417
00:21:58,230 --> 00:21:53,550
his commanding officer or that you know

418
00:22:02,610 --> 00:21:58,240
yeah he basically told them you know I'm

419
00:22:06,900 --> 00:22:02,620
a career military man I'm and I don't

420
00:22:10,410 --> 00:22:06,910
want this to mess up my career but he

421
00:22:15,380 --> 00:22:10,420
finally did kind of open and just shared

422
00:22:21,300 --> 00:22:19,740
apparently the Lorenz ins I think they

423
00:22:25,460 --> 00:22:21,310
convinced him that it might be helpful

424
00:22:28,350 --> 00:22:25,470
for him to try to retrieve his memories

425
00:22:31,410 --> 00:22:28,360
let's go and focus on that in our next

426
00:22:34,340 --> 00:22:31,420
segment so we have Jerry Irwin in touch

427
00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:34,350
with Jim and Cora Lorenzen of a pro

428
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David Bowie joins us

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we have Jerome Clark on the panel with

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546
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:29,730
controversial is hypnotic regression is

547
00:27:33,140 --> 00:27:32,250
that one technique that was used or they

548
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:33,150
try something else

549
00:27:50,060 --> 00:27:45,360
well Jerry collapsed on a street in El

550
00:27:53,450 --> 00:27:50,070
Paso and he was taken to the El Paso

551
00:27:55,399 --> 00:27:53,460
General Hospital where he was

552
00:27:59,289 --> 00:27:55,409
unconscious for a few hours and when he

553
00:28:04,450 --> 00:27:59,299
woke up he thought he was right back in

554
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:04,460
Utah the night when he saw them the UFO

555
00:28:10,850 --> 00:28:09,210
and his first words were again were

556
00:28:14,419 --> 00:28:10,860
there any survivors that's what he said

557
00:28:16,490 --> 00:28:14,429
when he first woke up in Utah so it was

558
00:28:20,870 --> 00:28:16,500
as if the the intervening three weeks

559
00:28:25,159 --> 00:28:20,880
had not even happened and they took him

560
00:28:28,970 --> 00:28:25,169
to the Army Hospital where he had been

561
00:28:33,590 --> 00:28:28,980
three weeks earlier and he didn't

562
00:28:40,370 --> 00:28:33,600
recognize anybody there as the as the

563
00:28:43,159 --> 00:28:40,380
doctor reported in his report well they

564
00:28:48,399 --> 00:28:43,169
at this point the they decided to keep

565
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:48,409
him in the army psych ward for 32 days

566
00:28:58,510 --> 00:28:53,130
for observation during that time they

567
00:29:03,320 --> 00:28:58,520
administered a sodium amytal interview

568
00:29:06,049 --> 00:29:03,330
also known as truth serum and that's the

569
00:29:09,529 --> 00:29:06,059
way that you can induce a hypnotic

570
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:09,539
trance in someone who's maybe maybe

571
00:29:14,810 --> 00:29:12,090
having trouble maybe it's someone who is

572
00:29:17,270 --> 00:29:14,820
a little resistant to entering hypnotic

573
00:29:17,630 --> 00:29:17,280
trance that's an easy way to induce it I

574
00:29:21,650 --> 00:29:17,640
guess

575
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:21,660
and the doctor recorded what Jerry said

576
00:29:27,980 --> 00:29:25,490
under the trance but when Jerry woke up

577
00:29:30,470 --> 00:29:27,990
he wouldn't share any information that

578
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:30,480
Jerry had shared with him while under

579
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:33,410
the Travis and Jerry couldn't remember

580
00:29:41,090 --> 00:29:37,250
anything that happened during his trance

581
00:29:41,539 --> 00:29:41,100
his his sodium amytal trance is what I

582
00:29:44,180 --> 00:29:41,549
mean

583
00:29:47,270 --> 00:29:44,190
sure so was there a reason why the

584
00:29:50,930 --> 00:29:47,280
doctor withheld us from him well he

585
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:50,940
didn't he didn't give Jerry a reason he

586
00:29:56,180 --> 00:29:52,410
just wouldn't tell him anything

587
00:30:00,880 --> 00:29:56,190
I think and Jerry another time actually

588
00:30:06,650 --> 00:30:00,890
said the doctor just said it didn't work

589
00:30:12,530 --> 00:30:06,660
but actually we were able to get ahold

590
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:12,540
of those Hospital Records and the

591
00:30:20,810 --> 00:30:17,010
information the doctor we recorded is is

592
00:30:23,919 --> 00:30:20,820
very intriguing it's it's interesting

593
00:30:27,340 --> 00:30:23,929
that he told Jerry didn't work because I

594
00:30:31,159 --> 00:30:27,350
guess that reflects the perspective of

595
00:30:35,450 --> 00:30:31,169
well probably the majority of people

596
00:30:38,330 --> 00:30:35,460
which was well there's the things that

597
00:30:40,190 --> 00:30:38,340
he were saying just sounded out so

598
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:40,200
outlandish he just they were just

599
00:30:50,330 --> 00:30:45,840
discounted but you know if he had said

600
00:30:53,390 --> 00:30:50,340
them 10 or 20 years later it might have

601
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:53,400
provoked a different response because

602
00:31:00,799 --> 00:30:55,770
these were the things that he was

603
00:31:05,900 --> 00:31:00,809
talking about in his trance were now we

604
00:31:10,549 --> 00:31:05,910
would recognize them as features of corn

605
00:31:15,799 --> 00:31:10,559
occult alien abduction at time there

606
00:31:19,310 --> 00:31:15,809
were no such stories now you got the

607
00:31:21,260 --> 00:31:19,320
information from his medical records who

608
00:31:26,150 --> 00:31:21,270
gave you the medical records did he give

609
00:31:28,010 --> 00:31:26,160
you the medical records Jerry did not

610
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:28,020
have the medical records but he signed

611
00:31:33,620 --> 00:31:30,090
the release form that we

612
00:31:38,810 --> 00:31:33,630
sent in to the National Archives and

613
00:31:45,950 --> 00:31:38,820
Records Administration and after several

614
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:45,960
months the the records came and it's it

615
00:31:52,460 --> 00:31:48,000
contains medical records service records

616
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:52,470
it's supposedly it's all all they have

617
00:32:00,350 --> 00:31:57,090
in their file at what point did he have

618
00:32:03,950 --> 00:32:00,360
access to the information about what he

619
00:32:06,860 --> 00:32:03,960
said during this session well he never

620
00:32:10,909 --> 00:32:06,870
did until he never heard anything about

621
00:32:13,060 --> 00:32:10,919
it until we retrieved Decker's it's the

622
00:32:15,620 --> 00:32:13,070
first time he saw anything about that

623
00:32:19,549 --> 00:32:15,630
let's dovetail that for a second here

624
00:32:22,419 --> 00:32:19,559
how old was he when you first met him he

625
00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:22,429
was 79 okay so we're talking about here

626
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:27,510
decades past and you have this document

627
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:30,090
that reports on something it sounds like

628
00:32:34,730 --> 00:32:33,120
an alien abduction but in all those

629
00:32:37,370 --> 00:32:34,740
years he knew nothing about it did he

630
00:32:43,399 --> 00:32:37,380
ever have any memories of anything like

631
00:32:53,510 --> 00:32:43,409
that happening not not that he's aware

632
00:32:55,370 --> 00:32:53,520
of TV he actually didn't remember ever

633
00:32:56,930 --> 00:32:55,380
and I don't think he did I don't think

634
00:32:59,659 --> 00:32:56,940
he ever had a chance he never saw

635
00:33:00,769 --> 00:32:59,669
anything that was ever published about

636
00:33:04,750 --> 00:33:00,779
him either

637
00:33:08,149 --> 00:33:04,760
not only did he not remember anything I

638
00:33:10,810 --> 00:33:08,159
guess he could have had a chance if the

639
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:10,820
lorenzo's had shown him their original

640
00:33:16,430 --> 00:33:15,120
April bulletin article he would have had

641
00:33:20,750 --> 00:33:16,440
a chance to see that but he doesn't

642
00:33:22,610 --> 00:33:20,760
remember seeing it but of course there's

643
00:33:25,970 --> 00:33:22,620
an awfully lot he doesn't remember from

644
00:33:28,159 --> 00:33:25,980
that time period anyway did he suffer

645
00:33:31,090 --> 00:33:28,169
from a stroke or anything that might

646
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:31,100
have prevented memories of what happened

647
00:33:40,460 --> 00:33:35,970
he had not he had been in fairly good

648
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:40,470
health at the time I've talked to him

649
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:46,170
and the thing is his memory of events

650
00:33:51,860 --> 00:33:49,050
before and after that year are are

651
00:33:56,330 --> 00:33:51,870
pretty clear he remembers a great deal

652
00:33:59,000 --> 00:33:56,340
about his life before and after but

653
00:34:03,650 --> 00:33:59,010
there's just a lot of there are a lot of

654
00:34:07,850 --> 00:34:03,660
holes in his memory from 1959 and part

655
00:34:11,090 --> 00:34:07,860
of 1960 obviously most of our listeners

656
00:34:12,890 --> 00:34:11,100
didn't read the Opera Bulletin how did

657
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:12,900
they frame this story where did they

658
00:34:17,090 --> 00:34:16,290
derive a UFO connection from it well

659
00:34:21,430 --> 00:34:17,100
well

660
00:34:27,230 --> 00:34:21,440
poor old Lorenz ins article came out

661
00:34:30,290 --> 00:34:27,240
just just weeks after the initial

662
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:30,300
incident the initial incident was in

663
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:36,690
February 20 of 1959 her article was in

664
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:42,930
the March April bulletin and it was

665
00:34:56,060 --> 00:34:48,930
called soldier sees flash unconscious 24

666
00:34:58,070 --> 00:34:56,070
hours and so the information she had was

667
00:35:04,960 --> 00:34:58,080
from newspaper articles and then she

668
00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:04,970
interviewed Jerry and she also

669
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:08,250
speculated what it could mean in her

670
00:35:17,390 --> 00:35:12,810
article about but uh because because his

671
00:35:19,970 --> 00:35:17,400
very intriguing detail came out which

672
00:35:26,890 --> 00:35:19,980
was that while Jerry was still in the

673
00:35:38,260 --> 00:35:32,690
he was he was he was mumbling he was

674
00:35:44,900 --> 00:35:42,020
repeatedly and

675
00:35:46,850 --> 00:35:44,910
he didn't when he was awake again he had

676
00:35:52,970 --> 00:35:46,860
no idea why he meant why he was saying

677
00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:52,980
that except that he had had been wearing

678
00:35:59,690 --> 00:35:56,640
a new sports jacket underneath his army

679
00:36:04,550 --> 00:35:59,700
overcoat when he left his vehicle to go

680
00:36:07,580 --> 00:36:04,560
look for this object and when they

681
00:36:11,060 --> 00:36:07,590
brought him to the hospital his jacket

682
00:36:14,540 --> 00:36:11,070
was menacing and nobody knew why nobody

683
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:14,550
had seen it he had been he had on his

684
00:36:19,420 --> 00:36:17,490
army overcoat but there was no sports

685
00:36:23,660 --> 00:36:19,430
jacket underneath of it

686
00:36:26,180 --> 00:36:23,670
souvenir we got Malay to come with David

687
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:26,190
Bowie the book is called no return and

688
00:36:31,970 --> 00:36:29,130
we're talking about strange experience

689
00:36:33,020 --> 00:36:31,980
of Gerry Irwin what caused it were

690
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:33,030
trying to figure that out

691
00:36:41,310 --> 00:36:35,250
Gerry Clark's on the panel with Gene and

692
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:49,600
[Music]

693
00:36:58,140 --> 00:36:53,520
thank you for listening to GCN

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708
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709
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710
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711
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:39,970
dream that turns out to be a nightmare

712
00:37:43,860 --> 00:37:42,130
because evil forces on our distant

713
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planet are planning to conquer the earth

714
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this is gripping science fiction of the

715
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classic kind attack of the rock codes

716
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and the coming of the protectors find

717
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718
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719
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720
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752
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756
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757
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:31,210
what if extend a fight really works but

758
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:32,800
you find that hard to believe and you

759
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:35,050
spend precious time looking for someone

760
00:39:40,290 --> 00:39:38,290
to say just try it I have my help today

761
00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:40,300
because of extender bite and if I did

762
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:42,730
not take a leap of faith and try it well

763
00:39:47,550 --> 00:39:45,490
I would be on disability today take one

764
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:47,560
bottle of extender bite as suggested for

765
00:39:52,350 --> 00:39:50,170
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766
00:39:54,210 --> 00:39:52,360
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767
00:39:56,970 --> 00:39:54,220
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768
00:39:59,130 --> 00:39:56,980
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769
00:40:00,810 --> 00:39:59,140
that you will feel extended bite working

770
00:40:03,180 --> 00:40:00,820
for you and will want to take another

771
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:03,190
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00:40:07,410 --> 00:40:05,410
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00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:30,190
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786
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792
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:07,089
hey this is Marie G Jones the author of

793
00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:10,490
this book is from the future and you are

794
00:41:23,380 --> 00:41:13,040
listening to the podcast the gold

795
00:41:30,740 --> 00:41:27,800
very fascinating episode in Utah 1959

796
00:41:33,830 --> 00:41:30,750
and once again as we speculate about

797
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:33,840
this and what happened and what David

798
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:37,530
Bowie tells us remember this is 2 years

799
00:41:43,580 --> 00:41:40,890
before Barney and Betty Hills episode

800
00:41:47,300 --> 00:41:43,590
their abduction so we're dealing with

801
00:41:50,330 --> 00:41:47,310
something here where the framework of an

802
00:41:52,790 --> 00:41:50,340
abduction experience really isn't there

803
00:41:54,590 --> 00:41:52,800
yet so we're trying to figure out what

804
00:41:56,990 --> 00:41:54,600
went on please go on with your

805
00:42:02,050 --> 00:41:57,000
description of how the Lorenz uns

806
00:42:05,540 --> 00:42:02,060
reported so the jacket on Bush detail

807
00:42:09,050 --> 00:42:05,550
really caught corrals attention she was

808
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:09,060
totally fascinated and she she's

809
00:42:17,870 --> 00:42:12,690
speculated for several paragraphs in her

810
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:17,880
article about the implications basically

811
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:20,490
she was it sounds like she's toying

812
00:42:26,950 --> 00:42:23,010
around with the idea of alien abduction

813
00:42:30,770 --> 00:42:26,960
without actually saying the words and

814
00:42:33,230 --> 00:42:30,780
she mentioned something about it I don't

815
00:42:37,420 --> 00:42:33,240
remember the words exactly but entities

816
00:42:43,820 --> 00:42:37,430
or intelligence that was unfamiliar with

817
00:42:46,490 --> 00:42:43,830
human clothing so they accidentally or

818
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:46,500
left his jacket off for some reason not

819
00:42:49,310 --> 00:42:47,490
steal

820
00:42:52,220 --> 00:42:49,320
she was perplexed she was just kind of

821
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:52,230
throwing some ideas out there but if she

822
00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:56,130
obviously thought it was important now

823
00:43:02,030 --> 00:42:58,560
let's go back in perspective here Jerry

824
00:43:05,210 --> 00:43:02,040
Clark in those days were in the late 50s

825
00:43:07,310 --> 00:43:05,220
early 60s before the Hills episode was

826
00:43:09,140 --> 00:43:07,320
there anything at all they hinted at UFO

827
00:43:13,220 --> 00:43:09,150
abductions in UFO literature

828
00:43:18,170 --> 00:43:13,230
well David points out there was the

829
00:43:18,950 --> 00:43:18,180
famous case in 1957 Brazil about the

830
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:18,960
young man

831
00:43:27,970 --> 00:43:22,560
Phyllis Bose who was abducted by a UFO

832
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:27,980
and allegedly had sexual Air course

833
00:43:34,460 --> 00:43:31,680
aboard ship but that case got very

834
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:34,470
little publicity v Lorenz ins were aware

835
00:43:40,170 --> 00:43:35,970
of it through there

836
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:40,180
Brazilian correspond to dr. Fontes but

837
00:43:47,870 --> 00:43:42,130
they didn't publish it because of its

838
00:43:52,230 --> 00:43:47,880
sensational nature and at one point in

839
00:43:55,410 --> 00:43:52,240
1962 Karl ranzan published a book about

840
00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:55,420
UFOs and it was reviewed rather

841
00:44:01,560 --> 00:43:57,810
scathingly in fate magazine by the

842
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:01,570
apologist max Miller and Miller was sort

843
00:44:07,260 --> 00:44:04,530
of sneering at the Lorenz ins who he

844
00:44:10,170 --> 00:44:07,270
depicted as rather credulous people

845
00:44:12,450 --> 00:44:10,180
which I think was really unfair but he

846
00:44:15,570 --> 00:44:12,460
pointed out that one thing about Cora

847
00:44:19,310 --> 00:44:15,580
Lorenzen was that she actually knew of a

848
00:44:21,930 --> 00:44:19,320
case of a man who was abducted by a

849
00:44:25,020 --> 00:44:21,940
subway max Miller put it was like

850
00:44:26,310 --> 00:44:25,030
somewhat inhibited woman from space

851
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:26,320
something like that

852
00:44:32,100 --> 00:44:29,650
and Cole of course was offended she

853
00:44:36,990 --> 00:44:32,110
wrote a letter to fade saying that yes

854
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:37,000
they knew of such a case but they didn't

855
00:44:40,710 --> 00:44:38,410
think that had been sufficiently

856
00:44:43,860 --> 00:44:40,720
validated well I discovered this in the

857
00:44:46,350 --> 00:44:43,870
1990s as I was doing the research for my

858
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:46,360
UFO encyclopedia went through a lot of

859
00:44:52,050 --> 00:44:48,490
the correspondence that the early

860
00:44:54,270 --> 00:44:52,060
ufologists had in the 50s and 60s and it

861
00:44:57,180 --> 00:44:54,280
turned out that the Lorenz ins actually

862
00:44:59,850 --> 00:44:57,190
were fascinated by that case which

863
00:45:04,290 --> 00:44:59,860
wasn't published it was published in

864
00:45:06,540 --> 00:45:04,300
English in 1961 at a Brazilian UFO

865
00:45:09,090 --> 00:45:06,550
bulletin would practically nobody read

866
00:45:11,460 --> 00:45:09,100
the Brazilian ufologist have actually

867
00:45:13,170 --> 00:45:11,470
gone out and interviewed those boys and

868
00:45:16,020 --> 00:45:13,180
it's quite an interesting article but it

869
00:45:18,180 --> 00:45:16,030
had virtually no readership in North

870
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:18,190
America was never mentioned anywhere

871
00:45:23,460 --> 00:45:21,010
that I've been able to find but there

872
00:45:26,010 --> 00:45:23,470
were a few people and and the Lorenz ins

873
00:45:29,070 --> 00:45:26,020
happened to be among them who knew there

874
00:45:31,620 --> 00:45:29,080
was this abduction case in the

875
00:45:33,330 --> 00:45:31,630
background and I think that that might

876
00:45:36,180 --> 00:45:33,340
have influenced some of their thinking

877
00:45:38,250 --> 00:45:36,190
about Owens experience even though they

878
00:45:40,410 --> 00:45:38,260
couldn't prove it because her Huan's

879
00:45:43,140 --> 00:45:40,420
memory was just completely almost

880
00:45:45,810 --> 00:45:43,150
completely obliterated but beyond that

881
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:45,820
yes there were cases of missing time and

882
00:45:51,270 --> 00:45:49,210
so on going back quite a pile

883
00:45:53,430 --> 00:45:51,280
you can actually find cases like that

884
00:45:56,820 --> 00:45:53,440
it's very lower which are kind of it and

885
00:46:00,420 --> 00:45:56,830
that analogous to UFO close encounters

886
00:46:02,790 --> 00:46:00,430
but even in early UFO cases if you read

887
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:02,800
the actual account that the witness

888
00:46:08,430 --> 00:46:05,530
wrote if you really carefully will find

889
00:46:12,450 --> 00:46:08,440
that the witness describes some kind of

890
00:46:16,620 --> 00:46:12,460
puzzling time gap or lapse in the course

891
00:46:19,620 --> 00:46:16,630
of seeing a UFO but these things really

892
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:19,630
were not known until of course the the

893
00:46:23,970 --> 00:46:21,850
hill case opens everything up but Lorenz

894
00:46:26,220 --> 00:46:23,980
ins were paying close attention they

895
00:46:29,550 --> 00:46:26,230
knew in the villas-boas case so I think

896
00:46:33,990 --> 00:46:29,560
they approached the Erwin case with what

897
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:34,000
we might call and expanded at this point

898
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:36,880
let's look at Gerry Irwin's life so

899
00:46:42,930 --> 00:46:38,370
after this

900
00:46:47,610 --> 00:46:42,940
shall we say you visit or the time he

901
00:46:50,100 --> 00:46:47,620
spent in a psychiatric facility what

902
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:50,110
happened then how did this affect his

903
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:53,410
military career when Gerry was released

904
00:46:58,400 --> 00:46:57,490
from his 32 day confinement on the psych

905
00:47:03,680 --> 00:46:58,410
ward

906
00:47:07,980 --> 00:47:03,690
the next day although the details are

907
00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:07,990
depends on which records were looking at

908
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:11,680
the court - the army records two days

909
00:47:22,980 --> 00:47:19,620
according to Gerry's testimony to the

910
00:47:25,790 --> 00:47:22,990
Lorenz ins the very next day these

911
00:47:30,510 --> 00:47:25,800
events happened where he went into a

912
00:47:35,610 --> 00:47:30,520
trance state and felt an uncontrollable

913
00:47:43,380 --> 00:47:35,620
urge to reboot on to this of his UFO

914
00:47:46,610 --> 00:47:43,390
encounter so he boarded he without leave

915
00:47:56,250 --> 00:47:46,620
he he boarded the Greyhound bus

916
00:48:00,930 --> 00:47:56,260
and an overnight bus to Utah and he

917
00:48:06,930 --> 00:48:00,940
disembark in Cedar City and he went

918
00:48:09,690 --> 00:48:06,940
walking out of town directly to a place

919
00:48:13,380 --> 00:48:09,700
along the highway where he knew he just

920
00:48:15,570 --> 00:48:13,390
knew the whole route automatically he

921
00:48:20,730 --> 00:48:15,580
just and then he just rode off into the

922
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:20,740
bush and went directly to a tree where

923
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:27,250
his jacket was hanging and and there was

924
00:48:34,500 --> 00:48:31,450
a pencil stuck through one of the

925
00:48:36,930 --> 00:48:34,510
buttonholes of his jacket and wrapped

926
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:36,940
around the pencil was a piece of paper

927
00:48:45,530 --> 00:48:42,130
which was a note and he took the pencil

928
00:48:49,650 --> 00:48:45,540
out of the buttonhole of his jacket

929
00:48:54,060 --> 00:48:49,660
unrolled the note and without reading it

930
00:48:56,070 --> 00:48:54,070
he burned it with his lighter and it

931
00:48:58,950 --> 00:48:56,080
wasn't until the small throws up from

932
00:49:01,980 --> 00:48:58,960
the the burning know that he snapped out

933
00:49:12,290 --> 00:49:01,990
of his trance and realized his

934
00:49:23,070 --> 00:49:19,020
a large open question about where

935
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:23,080
exactly why he found his jacket where he

936
00:49:31,940 --> 00:49:27,490
did because it didn't mesh with the the

937
00:49:39,420 --> 00:49:35,880
7 that becomes a big chapter in the

938
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:39,430
investigation you mean it put a

939
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:43,410
different location yes it's it's about

940
00:49:51,660 --> 00:49:48,210
where he where he finds his jacket is

941
00:49:53,849 --> 00:49:51,670
about biro and it's about 50 miles from

942
00:49:59,810 --> 00:49:53,859
where they found him on the night of his

943
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:01,100
well that

944
00:50:09,470 --> 00:50:04,610
an interesting twist yes that was

945
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:09,480
reported on pure previously that was not

946
00:50:16,370 --> 00:50:14,850
reported though I don't and this is it's

947
00:50:19,460 --> 00:50:16,380
really big puzzle I don't know why the

948
00:50:30,620 --> 00:50:19,470
Lorenz ins didn't notice or comment on

949
00:50:33,070 --> 00:50:30,630
that discrepancy and it's something I've

950
00:50:36,230 --> 00:50:33,080
speculate on but I have no answers for

951
00:50:39,860 --> 00:50:36,240
in the book but it creates an

952
00:50:41,180 --> 00:50:39,870
interesting puzzle that's for sure one

953
00:50:43,550 --> 00:50:41,190
thing that's really interesting about

954
00:50:46,340 --> 00:50:43,560
David's book is it for all the thorough

955
00:50:47,450 --> 00:50:46,350
investigation it's smart analysis the

956
00:50:53,050 --> 00:50:47,460
direct said it

957
00:50:58,490 --> 00:50:55,520
that works we got more to come with

958
00:51:01,370 --> 00:50:58,500
Jerome Clark David Bowie Jean Steinberg

959
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:01,380
Chris O'Brien exploring the Jerry

960
00:51:07,010 --> 00:51:04,890
Erwin story I wanted to just remind you

961
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:07,020
once again that we have that second

962
00:51:13,070 --> 00:51:09,650
radio show after the power cast and you

963
00:51:16,490 --> 00:51:13,080
can only download a copy if you're a

964
00:51:18,350 --> 00:51:16,500
member of the power cast plus go-to plus

965
00:51:20,860 --> 00:51:18,360
dot the power cast comm once again

966
00:51:23,030 --> 00:51:20,870
that's plus dot the power and cast comm

967
00:51:23,900 --> 00:51:23,040
you also give you a commercial free

968
00:51:27,140 --> 00:51:23,910
version of this show

969
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:27,150
you can't miss Plus that the power cast

970
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:43,450
thank you for listening to GCN

971
00:51:49,750 --> 00:51:47,290
be sure to visit GCN live.com today

972
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:49,760
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973
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974
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975
00:51:56,950 --> 00:51:54,920
you'll never forget

976
00:51:59,560 --> 00:51:56,960
a former US military intelligence

977
00:52:02,200 --> 00:51:59,570
officer is haunted by intense dreams

978
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:02,210
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

979
00:52:07,210 --> 00:52:04,490
help after a terrible battle in outer

980
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:07,220
space but the dreams turn out to be true

981
00:52:12,010 --> 00:52:09,530
and thrust him into a telepathic love

982
00:52:14,620 --> 00:52:12,020
affair with a woman whose faraway planet

983
00:52:17,590 --> 00:52:14,630
is intent on destroying the earth and

984
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:17,600
now the gripping tale continues in the

985
00:52:23,050 --> 00:52:20,330
coming of the protectors it's the second

986
00:52:24,940 --> 00:52:23,060
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987
00:52:27,670 --> 00:52:24,950
spanning adventure that pits our hapless

988
00:52:29,770 --> 00:52:27,680
heroes against powerful fanatical

989
00:52:32,650 --> 00:52:29,780
enemies that threaten the lives of

990
00:52:35,140 --> 00:52:32,660
freedom-loving beings everywhere attack

991
00:52:38,020 --> 00:52:35,150
of the rockets and the coming of the

992
00:52:41,290 --> 00:52:38,030
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993
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994
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996
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997
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998
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1008
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1009
00:53:25,240 --> 00:53:23,570
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1010
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1011
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1012
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1013
00:53:33,100 --> 00:53:31,250
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1014
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1015
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1016
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1017
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1019
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:46,850
that's 803 for no tax or my website Dan

1020
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:55,580
[Music]

1021
00:54:03,590 --> 00:53:59,280
welcome back to the para cast the gold

1022
00:54:12,300 --> 00:54:03,600
standard of paranormal radio and now

1023
00:54:15,390 --> 00:54:12,310
here's Jane Steinberg David Brewer

1024
00:54:18,290 --> 00:54:15,400
talking about his book no return the

1025
00:54:22,770 --> 00:54:18,300
Jerry Irwin's story UFO abduction or

1026
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:22,780
covert operation so he goes back to the

1027
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:26,290
scene of the crime David let's get his

1028
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:29,530
story when he comes back to his senses

1029
00:54:38,610 --> 00:54:36,610
he realizes that he's AWOL and that he

1030
00:54:43,650 --> 00:54:38,620
really has no idea what he's doing there

1031
00:54:47,940 --> 00:54:43,660
but he knows he needs to turn himself in

1032
00:54:50,340 --> 00:54:47,950
this is this would be this was April in

1033
00:54:54,330 --> 00:54:50,350
the high desert and the Sun was going

1034
00:54:56,340 --> 00:54:54,340
down and it was gang cold so there was a

1035
00:54:59,820 --> 00:54:56,350
sense of urgency for from both the

1036
00:55:02,670 --> 00:54:59,830
elements and from a ball so he hastened

1037
00:55:05,790 --> 00:55:02,680
to make his way back to Cedar City his

1038
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:05,800
his jacket appeared to be of no use

1039
00:55:12,990 --> 00:55:09,130
because it had weathered badly and the

1040
00:55:16,860 --> 00:55:13,000
intervening I guess it was a couple of

1041
00:55:21,150 --> 00:55:16,870
months so he left it there interestingly

1042
00:55:22,830 --> 00:55:21,160
and he walked back to Cedar City but he

1043
00:55:24,870 --> 00:55:22,840
had a hard time finding the road again

1044
00:55:27,810 --> 00:55:24,880
that was the interesting thing while he

1045
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:27,820
had no problem at fault locating his

1046
00:55:32,150 --> 00:55:30,970
jacket he was disoriented when he came

1047
00:55:35,070 --> 00:55:32,160
back to his senses

1048
00:55:37,110 --> 00:55:35,080
so after but after a while he did locate

1049
00:55:40,550 --> 00:55:37,120
the highway and walk back to Cedar City

1050
00:55:45,030 --> 00:55:40,560
and turned himself in where he

1051
00:55:51,110 --> 00:55:45,040
encountered Sheriff I forget who he had

1052
00:55:54,420 --> 00:55:51,120
met after his initial encounter and

1053
00:55:56,850 --> 00:55:54,430
sheriff I filled him in on the details

1054
00:55:59,099 --> 00:55:56,860
that he had he no longer remembered from

1055
00:56:04,710 --> 00:55:59,109
his first

1056
00:56:08,339 --> 00:56:04,720
Sheriff I've contacted military

1057
00:56:12,180 --> 00:56:08,349
officials to arrange for Jerry be picked

1058
00:56:14,609 --> 00:56:12,190
up interestingly it of course it took a

1059
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:14,619
few days and I guess that's not unusual

1060
00:56:18,930 --> 00:56:17,650
for picking up a wall offenders the

1061
00:56:21,989 --> 00:56:18,940
they're usually not in a hurry about

1062
00:56:23,940 --> 00:56:21,999
that I guess but when they picked him up

1063
00:56:28,769 --> 00:56:23,950
they took him to Fort Ord California

1064
00:56:31,410 --> 00:56:28,779
first before when he stayed a few days

1065
00:56:34,950 --> 00:56:31,420
before they drove him back to Fort Bliss

1066
00:56:36,690 --> 00:56:34,960
in Texas which is a massive detour maybe

1067
00:56:39,269 --> 00:56:36,700
someone in the military world will be

1068
00:56:41,069 --> 00:56:39,279
able to set it out shed some light on

1069
00:56:44,549 --> 00:56:41,079
that I have no idea why they would do

1070
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:44,559
such a thing but it does to me it wasn't

1071
00:56:50,729 --> 00:56:47,410
the provocative question what would

1072
00:56:53,279 --> 00:56:50,739
cause such a huge detour and then when

1073
00:56:59,819 --> 00:56:53,289
he got back to Fort Bliss he was demoted

1074
00:57:02,660 --> 00:56:59,829
and fined and then sent back to duty but

1075
00:57:07,829 --> 00:57:02,670
I think they gave him a different duty

1076
00:57:09,690 --> 00:57:07,839
someone there there are the record isn't

1077
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:09,700
entirely clear somewhere in there he was

1078
00:57:18,630 --> 00:57:13,450
reassigned from his work as the Nike

1079
00:57:21,690 --> 00:57:18,640
missile technician to possibly a desk or

1080
00:57:25,249 --> 00:57:21,700
to a desk job somewhere in other words

1081
00:57:27,989 --> 00:57:25,259
nothing mission critical yes

1082
00:57:29,249 --> 00:57:27,999
whereas he has security clearance when

1083
00:57:33,210 --> 00:57:29,259
he was working on the Nike missile

1084
00:57:37,380 --> 00:57:33,220
program and that was taken away from him

1085
00:57:42,329 --> 00:57:37,390
and he was demoted from specialist sp4

1086
00:57:45,150 --> 00:57:42,339
to back down to pilot private first

1087
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:45,160
class I should say very quickly here was

1088
00:57:47,489 --> 00:57:46,930
he a single gentleman or did he have a

1089
00:57:51,390 --> 00:57:47,499
family

1090
00:57:55,049 --> 00:57:51,400
he had been in the Air Force he enlisted

1091
00:57:59,400 --> 00:57:55,059
in the Air Force at age 16 during the

1092
00:58:02,039 --> 00:57:59,410
height of the Korean War although it he

1093
00:58:06,989 --> 00:58:02,049
was kind of he was eager to serve in the

1094
00:58:10,140 --> 00:58:06,999
war his his true age was later found out

1095
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:10,150
and and he was barred from serving in a

1096
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:13,090
combat zone so they sent him to Alaska

1097
00:58:22,790 --> 00:58:16,570
to work on the distant early warning

1098
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:22,800
line the do lying which so he was

1099
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:28,570
stationed in Alaska at it was called the

1100
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:35,050
ten city air force scene ten cities

1101
00:58:40,350 --> 00:58:37,930
station or something like that it was

1102
00:58:46,070 --> 00:58:40,360
only 48 miles from the Siberian mainland

1103
00:58:50,820 --> 00:58:46,080
and they were there to monitor the skies

1104
00:58:54,900 --> 00:58:50,830
encased Russian nuclear attack in that

1105
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:54,910
know that the dew line was a series of

1106
00:59:00,390 --> 00:58:57,370
radar installations that ran right

1107
00:59:03,140 --> 00:59:00,400
across the northern frontier from all

1108
00:59:09,210 --> 00:59:03,150
the way across candidates at Greenland

1109
00:59:12,090 --> 00:59:09,220
after and and Jerry's position was a

1110
00:59:15,810 --> 00:59:12,100
ground radio operator during that time

1111
00:59:24,390 --> 00:59:15,820
in the Air Force when he got out of the

1112
00:59:30,390 --> 00:59:24,400
Air Force I think it was 1956 he got

1113
00:59:35,430 --> 00:59:30,400
married and you and but that didn't last

1114
00:59:39,420 --> 00:59:35,440
very long they had a couple of kids they

1115
00:59:41,250 --> 00:59:39,430
got divorced and then he worked for the

1116
00:59:44,940 --> 00:59:41,260
Forest Service for a while and then he

1117
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:44,950
ran listed and this time in the army and

1118
00:59:51,420 --> 00:59:48,490
he was at the ballot a little over a

1119
00:59:53,460 --> 00:59:51,430
year into his army enlistment when this

1120
00:59:55,650 --> 00:59:53,470
event happened and he had been actually

1121
00:59:58,380 --> 00:59:55,660
doing quite a bit bonus in his army

1122
01:00:05,280 --> 00:59:58,390
career he had rapidly been promoted to

1123
01:00:09,330 --> 01:00:05,290
uh to a Nike technician and was

1124
01:00:13,590 --> 01:00:09,340
seemingly thriving in the army before

1125
01:00:16,740 --> 01:00:13,600
this happened so very briefly here it's

1126
01:00:18,300 --> 01:00:16,750
likely then that his ex-wife I haven't

1127
01:00:21,570 --> 01:00:18,310
asked you whether he remarried or not

1128
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:21,580
that his ex-wife and his kids probably

1129
01:00:25,610 --> 01:00:23,050
would didn't know anything about this or

1130
01:00:26,940 --> 01:00:25,620
did they did you try to contact them

1131
01:00:29,730 --> 01:00:26,950
actually

1132
01:00:33,079 --> 01:00:29,740
Jerry told me he had never spoken to

1133
01:00:38,039 --> 01:00:33,089
anyone this family about this event and

1134
01:00:42,049 --> 01:00:38,049
this was confirmed by both his youngest

1135
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:42,059
daughter and also from an older brother

1136
01:00:50,549 --> 01:00:45,130
neither of them had ever spoken with him

1137
01:00:53,069 --> 01:00:50,559
about this event so that you know for

1138
01:00:56,010 --> 01:00:53,079
whatever reason it wasn't something he

1139
01:00:57,750 --> 01:00:56,020
wanted to talk about of course he didn't

1140
01:00:59,450 --> 01:00:57,760
remember a lot about either that's

1141
01:01:03,569 --> 01:00:59,460
another factor

1142
01:01:11,700 --> 01:01:03,579
did he ever remarry or what he actually

1143
01:01:14,910 --> 01:01:11,710
did remarry after his after he

1144
01:01:20,900 --> 01:01:14,920
eventually got out of the army he did

1145
01:01:27,930 --> 01:01:20,910
remarry and had another child and and

1146
01:01:35,339 --> 01:01:27,940
then that that him then divorce and then

1147
01:01:40,099 --> 01:01:35,349
eventually he met the woman then the

1148
01:01:44,730 --> 01:01:40,109
last his last wife they stayed together

1149
01:01:54,220 --> 01:01:48,780
of just a year or two before I met him

1150
01:02:01,810 --> 01:01:54,230
so he was recently and recently become a

1151
01:02:04,630 --> 01:02:01,820
widower okay did he mention whether his

1152
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:04,640
second or third wife knew about any of

1153
01:02:12,990 --> 01:02:08,450
this the only thing he would say was

1154
01:02:17,260 --> 01:02:13,000
that he had never spoken to anyone and I

1155
01:02:19,930 --> 01:02:17,270
anyone his family and I just assumed

1156
01:02:25,810 --> 01:02:19,940
that meant all of his wives as well the

1157
01:02:30,910 --> 01:02:25,820
son I don't know for sure did you talk

1158
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:30,920
to his children about it I spoke to the

1159
01:02:37,030 --> 01:02:35,210
youngest daughter and it it was it was

1160
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:37,040
quite surprising to her she hadn't heard

1161
01:02:49,570 --> 01:02:43,090
I don't think he ever did share it with

1162
01:02:54,030 --> 01:02:49,580
anybody is he still alive or not yeah I

1163
01:02:57,970 --> 01:02:54,040
spoke with yes I spoke with him in June

1164
01:03:01,590 --> 01:02:57,980
and he was doing fine

1165
01:03:07,090 --> 01:03:01,600
he has he'd been through a terrible

1166
01:03:13,030 --> 01:03:07,100
cardiac event a few months after my last

1167
01:03:16,510 --> 01:03:13,040
interviews with him in Idaho he suffered

1168
01:03:19,450 --> 01:03:16,520
a massive cardiac arrest well I'm really

1169
01:03:24,390 --> 01:03:19,460
sorry to hear about that in his ongoing

1170
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:24,400
illness and we do wish him a recovery

1171
01:03:31,630 --> 01:03:28,610
let's go into more about Jerry Erwin as

1172
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:31,640
experiences and go back to see what

1173
01:03:36,430 --> 01:03:35,210
happened through his life more to come

1174
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:36,440
with David Bowie

1175
01:03:46,450 --> 01:03:39,170
Jerome Clark she and Chris are in the

1176
01:03:50,660 --> 01:03:48,920
attack of the rock ODEs has been

1177
01:03:52,610 --> 01:03:50,670
well-received by critics and readers

1178
01:03:55,460 --> 01:03:52,620
alike it's a thrill a minute story

1179
01:03:57,770 --> 01:03:55,470
you'll never forget a former US military

1180
01:04:00,050 --> 01:03:57,780
intelligence officer is haunted by

1181
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:00,060
intense dreams about a beautiful woman

1182
01:04:05,450 --> 01:04:02,610
pleading for his help after a terrible

1183
01:04:07,580 --> 01:04:05,460
battle in outer space but the dreams

1184
01:04:09,380 --> 01:04:07,590
turn out to be true and thrust him into

1185
01:04:12,260 --> 01:04:09,390
a telepathic love affair with a woman

1186
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:12,270
whose faraway planet is intent on

1187
01:04:17,450 --> 01:04:14,610
destroying the earth and now the

1188
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:17,460
gripping tale continues in the coming of

1189
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:19,890
the protectors it's the second book of

1190
01:04:24,710 --> 01:04:22,530
the raccoons trilogy a galaxy spanning

1191
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:24,720
adventure that pits our hapless heroes

1192
01:04:29,690 --> 01:04:27,810
against powerful fanatical enemies that

1193
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:29,700
threaten the lives of freedom loving

1194
01:04:34,990 --> 01:04:32,250
beings everywhere attack of the rock

1195
01:04:37,790 --> 01:04:35,000
codes and the coming of the protectors

1196
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:37,800
classic science fiction at its best

1197
01:04:42,470 --> 01:04:40,650
available now for more details visit

1198
01:04:47,210 --> 01:04:42,480
raah codes calm

1199
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:47,220
that's our Ock o IDs calm we all know

1200
01:04:51,020 --> 01:04:49,290
that murky water purification systems

1201
01:04:53,030 --> 01:04:51,030
are the most trusted name in water

1202
01:04:54,890 --> 01:04:53,040
filtration as an authorized Berkey

1203
01:04:56,900 --> 01:04:54,900
dealer for over 6 years in serving

1204
01:04:59,360 --> 01:04:56,910
thousands of satisfied customers the

1205
01:05:01,340 --> 01:04:59,370
Berkey guy offers amazing specials for

1206
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:01,350
berkey water filtration systems the

1207
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:02,970
murky light systems include a set of

1208
01:05:06,980 --> 01:05:05,010
self-sterilizing and re cleanable black

1209
01:05:09,410 --> 01:05:06,990
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1210
01:05:11,630 --> 01:05:09,420
by removing chlorine pathogenic bacteria

1211
01:05:13,850 --> 01:05:11,640
cysts and parasites to non detectable

1212
01:05:15,890 --> 01:05:13,860
levels and remove harmful chemicals such

1213
01:05:17,750 --> 01:05:15,900
as herbicides and pesticides order the

1214
01:05:20,420 --> 01:05:17,760
Berkey light system today complete with

1215
01:05:22,340 --> 01:05:20,430
two black per key elements for only 231

1216
01:05:24,290 --> 01:05:22,350
dollars and the burka guy will ship your

1217
01:05:26,420 --> 01:05:24,300
order free of charge with the purchase

1218
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:26,430
of a Berkey light the burka guy is also

1219
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:28,410
offering is set of fluoride and arsenic

1220
01:05:32,750 --> 01:05:31,290
filters for only $39.99 that's over 30

1221
01:05:35,060 --> 01:05:32,760
percent off the retail price

1222
01:05:37,250 --> 01:05:35,070
call the burqa guy at one eighty seventy

1223
01:05:39,260 --> 01:05:37,260
seven eight eight six three six five

1224
01:05:41,690 --> 01:05:39,270
three that's one eight seventy seven

1225
01:05:44,510 --> 01:05:41,700
eight eight six three six five three or

1226
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:44,520
order online at Gober Keep Calm let's go

1227
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:52,430
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1228
01:05:57,470 --> 01:05:55,410
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1229
01:06:00,230 --> 01:05:57,480
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1230
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1231
01:06:05,210 --> 01:06:03,029
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1232
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:05,220
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1233
01:06:09,740 --> 01:06:07,650
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1234
01:06:12,170 --> 01:06:09,750
Guster the series available from Barnes

1235
01:06:15,109 --> 01:06:12,180
& Noble or Amazon as paperback or ebooks

1236
01:06:19,430 --> 01:06:15,119
Galaxy Quest ebooks.com where the

1237
01:06:21,650 --> 01:06:19,440
adventure begins it's been said any

1238
01:06:24,650 --> 01:06:21,660
society is only three missed meals away

1239
01:06:25,220 --> 01:06:24,660
from chaos those times may be near think

1240
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:25,230
about it

1241
01:06:28,910 --> 01:06:27,210
our country faces multiple terrorist

1242
01:06:31,279 --> 01:06:28,920
threats and aggressions from Russia and

1243
01:06:33,140 --> 01:06:31,289
North Korea social unrest and violent

1244
01:06:35,210 --> 01:06:33,150
marches yet again may lead to looting of

1245
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:35,220
stores and city shutdowns and a

1246
01:06:38,420 --> 01:06:36,690
crumbling infrastructure leaves our

1247
01:06:40,940 --> 01:06:38,430
power grid vulnerable to long term

1248
01:06:42,529 --> 01:06:40,950
outages from a single cyberattack when

1249
01:06:44,599 --> 01:06:42,539
the chaos from any one of these threats

1250
01:06:46,309 --> 01:06:44,609
arises the government knows it can't

1251
01:06:48,589 --> 01:06:46,319
provide during a widespread national

1252
01:06:51,170 --> 01:06:48,599
emergency that's why you need your own

1253
01:06:53,990 --> 01:06:51,180
plan for self-reliance that's where my

1254
01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:54,000
Patriot supply comes in get a four week

1255
01:06:58,490 --> 01:06:56,490
survival food supply for only 99 dollars

1256
01:07:01,549 --> 01:06:58,500
that includes breakfast lunches and

1257
01:07:04,670 --> 01:07:01,559
dinners order online at prepare with GCN

1258
01:07:06,769 --> 01:07:04,680
comm 99 bucks for four weeks of survival

1259
01:07:09,740 --> 01:07:06,779
food that tastes like homemade cooking

1260
01:07:12,349 --> 01:07:09,750
and lasts up to 25 years from my Patriot

1261
01:07:14,690 --> 01:07:12,359
supply get your kits today at prepare

1262
01:07:17,410 --> 01:07:14,700
with GC and comm free shipping is

1263
01:07:21,230 --> 01:07:17,420
included prepare with GC n.com

1264
01:07:23,180 --> 01:07:21,240
anytime anyplace anywhere Radio remains

1265
01:07:25,519 --> 01:07:23,190
the most intimate of all forms of media

1266
01:07:27,950 --> 01:07:25,529
at home at work in the car on

1267
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:27,960
smartphones over 90 percent of consumers

1268
01:07:32,089 --> 01:07:30,450
still listen to radio every week that

1269
01:07:34,430 --> 01:07:32,099
makes choosing radio as a place to

1270
01:07:36,980 --> 01:07:34,440
advertise your business one of the best

1271
01:07:40,009 --> 01:07:36,990
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1272
01:07:42,349 --> 01:07:40,019
at GCN live.com and partner up with an

1273
01:07:45,109 --> 01:07:42,359
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1274
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:45,119
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1275
01:07:54,710 --> 01:07:52,700
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

1276
01:07:58,400 --> 01:07:54,720
comment or question about the para cast

1277
01:08:02,089 --> 01:07:58,410
sent it to news at the para cast com

1278
01:08:04,099 --> 01:08:02,099
that's news at the para cast calm and

1279
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:04,109
don't forget to visit our famous para

1280
01:08:12,589 --> 01:08:07,290
cast community forums at forum dot the

1281
01:08:14,750 --> 01:08:12,599
para cast calm so Jerry Erwin has a

1282
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:14,760
cardiac event but he's okay now

1283
01:08:22,519 --> 01:08:20,250
well it was very serious he he was his

1284
01:08:27,349 --> 01:08:22,529
heart was stopped for half an hour which

1285
01:08:32,780 --> 01:08:27,359
is a twitches everybody was shocked that

1286
01:08:37,459 --> 01:08:32,790
he actually revived but it had taken

1287
01:08:40,610 --> 01:08:37,469
quite a toll and it's it's been a long

1288
01:08:44,959 --> 01:08:40,620
recovery process for him getting his

1289
01:08:48,820 --> 01:08:44,969
functions functioning back and his

1290
01:08:50,959 --> 01:08:48,830
memory took another hit because it had

1291
01:08:53,450 --> 01:08:50,969
well you know when your hearts not

1292
01:08:57,620 --> 01:08:53,460
working for that long it's it definitely

1293
01:09:00,800 --> 01:08:57,630
affects the brain to some degree but

1294
01:09:05,450 --> 01:09:00,810
luckily because I had spoken with him

1295
01:09:10,309 --> 01:09:05,460
not long after that event it seems that

1296
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:10,319
as his he is recovering getting some of

1297
01:09:18,890 --> 01:09:14,850
his memory back of course what I mean by

1298
01:09:20,539 --> 01:09:18,900
that is now he remembers me he didn't

1299
01:09:26,450 --> 01:09:20,549
remember me after the heart attack he

1300
01:09:29,390 --> 01:09:26,460
saw uh he is getting better that way so

1301
01:09:31,220 --> 01:09:29,400
this is basically baby steps obviously

1302
01:09:33,979 --> 01:09:31,230
let's gets back through his life from

1303
01:09:35,599 --> 01:09:33,989
where we try to figure whether there's

1304
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:35,609
some kind of government connection with

1305
01:09:40,180 --> 01:09:36,810
what happened to him

1306
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:40,190
so he's put back on duty and he gets

1307
01:09:48,590 --> 01:09:44,250
demoted and he gets a desk job get him

1308
01:09:51,709 --> 01:09:48,600
out of the line of fire what next at

1309
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:51,719
that point that's when the lorenz ins

1310
01:10:00,859 --> 01:09:56,489
were they they drove down to meet with

1311
01:10:04,820 --> 01:10:00,869
him they took him out to a restaurant

1312
01:10:10,930 --> 01:10:04,830
and he told them everything he could

1313
01:10:17,780 --> 01:10:14,180
they asked him if he would be receptive

1314
01:10:22,209 --> 01:10:17,790
to seeing a private doctor I mean a

1315
01:10:26,930 --> 01:10:22,219
civilian doctor for the process of

1316
01:10:30,740 --> 01:10:26,940
hypnotic regression and he was

1317
01:10:33,859 --> 01:10:30,750
interested because by now he he was

1318
01:10:36,109 --> 01:10:33,869
really upset he had just been through he

1319
01:10:37,729 --> 01:10:36,119
didn't know why he just gotten out of

1320
01:10:41,030 --> 01:10:37,739
the hospital and then he did this thing

1321
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:41,040
wasn't completely inexplicable that he

1322
01:10:47,300 --> 01:10:43,530
seemed to have no control over going

1323
01:10:49,339 --> 01:10:47,310
into a trance and maturing to Utah so he

1324
01:10:55,790 --> 01:10:49,349
really wanted to see what he could do it

1325
01:10:58,970 --> 01:10:55,800
heal himself and so he he agreed to to

1326
01:11:02,359 --> 01:10:58,980
meet with the doctor which he did and

1327
01:11:10,010 --> 01:11:02,369
they set up a series of appointments and

1328
01:11:12,700 --> 01:11:10,020
then he never kept any of them and when

1329
01:11:17,180 --> 01:11:12,710
the Lorenzo's went to investigate why

1330
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:17,190
they found out that every time Jerry had

1331
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:19,050
an appointment and he tried to leave the

1332
01:11:25,729 --> 01:11:22,650
base his commanding officer would find

1333
01:11:29,270 --> 01:11:25,739
some extra duties for him to do either

1334
01:11:32,180 --> 01:11:29,280
that or he would not allow Jerry to

1335
01:11:35,419 --> 01:11:32,190
trade duty if if he was already

1336
01:11:39,709 --> 01:11:35,429
scheduled and he told Jerry and no one

1337
01:11:41,359 --> 01:11:39,719
no uncertain terms that just you better

1338
01:11:44,089 --> 01:11:41,369
just drop this thing or we're gonna make

1339
01:11:48,379 --> 01:11:44,099
your life pretty rough and after a

1340
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:48,389
couple of weeks of the all the extra

1341
01:11:56,629 --> 01:11:52,770
duties Jerry just gave up he never kept

1342
01:11:57,709 --> 01:11:56,639
any of the appointments that obviously

1343
01:12:02,000 --> 01:11:57,719
seems strange

1344
01:12:06,169 --> 01:12:02,010
so certainly looks like that's yes why

1345
01:12:07,910 --> 01:12:06,179
would they be concerned about him

1346
01:12:10,899 --> 01:12:07,920
retrieving his memories that's a very

1347
01:12:14,270 --> 01:12:10,909
interesting question

1348
01:12:17,440 --> 01:12:14,280
it probably goes back to the the doc

1349
01:12:19,670 --> 01:12:17,450
there's comments either privately or

1350
01:12:24,440 --> 01:12:19,680
maybe even classed in a classified

1351
01:12:29,770 --> 01:12:24,450
manner about the initial sodium amytal

1352
01:12:33,500 --> 01:12:29,780
or pentothal session that he did mm-hmm

1353
01:12:36,890 --> 01:12:33,510
yes I just wonder how that was received

1354
01:12:38,990 --> 01:12:36,900
by the command structure and it raises a

1355
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:39,000
lot of interesting questions of course

1356
01:12:46,010 --> 01:12:42,330
one question that arises in this story

1357
01:12:51,790 --> 01:12:46,020
is is it possible that he happened upon

1358
01:12:58,130 --> 01:12:51,800
a secret a test of a secret aircraft

1359
01:13:00,140 --> 01:12:58,140
that he couldn't identify but that they

1360
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:00,150
wanted to keep the lid on I mean that's

1361
01:13:07,370 --> 01:13:02,730
one possibility yeah it's not too far

1362
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:07,380
from groom Lake exactly it's only what a

1363
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:09,810
couple hundred miles or so maybe 300

1364
01:13:18,350 --> 01:13:13,650
miles but not on not even yeah it's not

1365
01:13:20,480 --> 01:13:18,360
that far that my to get back into one

1366
01:13:24,110 --> 01:13:20,490
thing here it also clarify as we flesh

1367
01:13:26,990 --> 01:13:24,120
this story out when you examined the

1368
01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:27,000
medical records and the description of

1369
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:30,930
the event during that sodium pentathol

1370
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:34,050
session can you give us a quick summary

1371
01:13:47,170 --> 01:13:44,010
of what he told the doctor well Jerry

1372
01:13:51,350 --> 01:13:47,180
said that it all started at age three

1373
01:13:55,130 --> 01:13:51,360
and he didn't say what started at age

1374
01:14:00,620 --> 01:13:55,140
three but then he started to talk about

1375
01:14:03,950 --> 01:14:00,630
why he couldn't talk about it he's he

1376
01:14:06,170 --> 01:14:03,960
implied or he said that he wasn't

1377
01:14:08,630 --> 01:14:06,180
supposed to remember or he wasn't

1378
01:14:11,750 --> 01:14:08,640
supposed to talk about it and then if he

1379
01:14:17,740 --> 01:14:11,760
did people could get hurt essentially

1380
01:14:24,770 --> 01:14:22,400
and although you know and and it's

1381
01:14:27,509 --> 01:14:24,780
important to remember that this is this

1382
01:14:31,089 --> 01:14:27,519
is recorded by doctor who is

1383
01:14:35,679 --> 01:14:31,099
who just obviously thinks this is total

1384
01:14:39,250 --> 01:14:35,689
nonsense yet he's he's calling it in his

1385
01:14:41,350 --> 01:14:39,260
own report he's saying that he's the

1386
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:41,360
doctor reports on the absurdity and and

1387
01:14:47,259 --> 01:14:44,530
basically discounts the entire testimony

1388
01:14:51,639 --> 01:14:47,269
because he's you know because of the

1389
01:14:54,729 --> 01:14:51,649
absurd nature of what Jerry said okay

1390
01:14:58,560 --> 01:14:54,739
was there a specific description of what

1391
01:15:01,479 --> 01:14:58,570
happened during that four hours

1392
01:15:08,290 --> 01:15:01,489
well he'd know he actually didn't didn't

1393
01:15:09,819 --> 01:15:08,300
talk about that directly yeah so he

1394
01:15:13,929 --> 01:15:09,829
didn't really provide any hints about

1395
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:13,939
that uh he he stated there was a special

1396
01:15:20,290 --> 01:15:17,449
intelligence that he couldn't explain to

1397
01:15:24,419 --> 01:15:20,300
me since I'm just quoting here from the

1398
01:15:26,469 --> 01:15:24,429
doctor devastated there was a special

1399
01:15:28,839 --> 01:15:26,479
intelligence that he couldn't explain to

1400
01:15:31,359 --> 01:15:28,849
me since it would be incomprehensible to

1401
01:15:35,049 --> 01:15:31,369
me which has directed him not to

1402
01:15:38,589 --> 01:15:35,059
remember or not to tell me any about any

1403
01:15:41,049 --> 01:15:38,599
of the events in Utah he says if he

1404
01:15:43,049 --> 01:15:41,059
tells what was behind the incidents in

1405
01:15:45,279 --> 01:15:43,059
Utah there will be a big investigation

1406
01:15:47,859 --> 01:15:45,289
that he does not want to be bothered

1407
01:15:49,989 --> 01:15:47,869
with and also because it will harm any

1408
01:15:53,169 --> 01:15:49,999
people and he doesn't want that to

1409
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:53,179
happen he states it all began at the age

1410
01:15:59,379 --> 01:15:56,090
of three years although he will not

1411
01:16:01,330 --> 01:15:59,389
reveal how or what began stating it

1412
01:16:04,929 --> 01:16:01,340
would provide a clue to me as to what is

1413
01:16:07,209 --> 01:16:04,939
behind all this also he informed me that

1414
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:07,219
he could leave this hospital at any time

1415
01:16:13,389 --> 01:16:09,530
if he wanted to invoke in a special

1416
01:16:16,330 --> 01:16:13,399
force all right we got another force

1417
01:16:18,879 --> 01:16:16,340
it's called the commercial force and

1418
01:16:22,839 --> 01:16:18,889
it's being activated right now I could

1419
01:16:24,609 --> 01:16:22,849
feel it in the ether some people want to

1420
01:16:27,639 --> 01:16:24,619
give me ether and just solve the problem

1421
01:16:37,060 --> 01:16:27,649
David Bowie Jerry Clark Chris O'Brien

1422
01:16:37,070 --> 01:16:42,090
thank you for listening to GCN

1423
01:16:49,590 --> 01:16:48,570
visit GP and live.com today remember

1424
01:16:51,030 --> 01:16:49,600
when you said you were gonna start

1425
01:16:52,740 --> 01:16:51,040
paying more attention to your health and

1426
01:16:54,450 --> 01:16:52,750
now you're eating potato chips just a

1427
01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:54,460
few a few okay but you should be eating

1428
01:16:58,410 --> 01:16:56,530
super berries aronia berries are only

1429
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what aronia berries from super berries

1430
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calm they're know for having one of the

1431
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highest levels of antioxidants that

1432
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helps with overall wellness go to super

1433
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berries calm slash radio and right now

1434
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1435
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1436
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1437
01:17:15,810 --> 01:17:13,300
of these berries I know Ralph I know

1438
01:17:19,200 --> 01:17:15,820
choose health eat purple super berries

1439
01:17:20,820 --> 01:17:19,210
calm North Korea openly threatens the US

1440
01:17:22,430 --> 01:17:20,830
and launches a new missile every other

1441
01:17:23,910 --> 01:17:22,440
week their warhead of choice

1442
01:17:25,410 --> 01:17:23,920
electromagnetic pulse

1443
01:17:27,090 --> 01:17:25,420
such an event would [\h__\h] the u.s.

1444
01:17:27,900 --> 01:17:27,100
power grid for years and leave millions

1445
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:27,910
in the dark

1446
01:17:32,220 --> 01:17:29,890
are you ready you can be with a soul arc

1447
01:17:34,110 --> 01:17:32,230
EMP hardened solar generator soul arc

1448
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:34,120
works day in and day out to keep all of

1449
01:17:37,470 --> 01:17:35,890
your essentials protected that means you

1450
01:17:39,210 --> 01:17:37,480
can have peace of mind knowing your

1451
01:17:41,670 --> 01:17:39,220
power will be there when you most need

1452
01:17:44,460 --> 01:17:41,680
it visit seoul arc u.s. to see EMP

1453
01:17:49,140 --> 01:17:44,470
testing that's so lark dot US energy

1454
01:17:51,170 --> 01:17:49,150
insurance for your family people who can

1455
01:17:53,490 --> 01:17:51,180
afford a lasik procedure sure are lucky

1456
01:17:55,800 --> 01:17:53,500
imagine being able to throw away your

1457
01:17:58,200 --> 01:17:55,810
contacts and glasses imagine waking up

1458
01:18:00,540 --> 01:17:58,210
tomorrow with 20/20 vision too bad

1459
01:18:02,490 --> 01:18:00,550
everyone can't afford LASIK well guess

1460
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what there's a company that agrees with

1461
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you the LASIK vision Institute is now

1462
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offering dramatically low prices on high

1463
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1464
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everyone that means you get the latest

1465
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1466
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1467
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1468
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1469
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is right for you results may vary

1470
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1471
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1472
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1473
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1474
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1475
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1476
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1477
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1478
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1479
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1480
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1481
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1482
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1483
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:49,750
six hello I'm Mike Mendell the inventor

1484
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:51,370
of my pillow and like all of you out

1485
01:18:54,350 --> 01:18:52,050
there I have

1486
01:18:56,060 --> 01:18:54,360
problem sleeping pillows would go flat I

1487
01:18:57,620 --> 01:18:56,070
would flip flop all night long I would

1488
01:18:59,209 --> 01:18:57,630
wake up with a sore neck maybe a

1489
01:19:00,890 --> 01:18:59,219
headache or feel like I needed a nap

1490
01:19:02,780 --> 01:19:00,900
even though I slept eight hours when I

1491
01:19:04,729 --> 01:19:02,790
invented my pillow I wanted it to where

1492
01:19:06,709 --> 01:19:04,739
you can move the patented fill to give

1493
01:19:08,839 --> 01:19:06,719
you the exact support you need as an

1494
01:19:10,700 --> 01:19:08,849
individual regardless of sleep position

1495
01:19:12,649 --> 01:19:10,710
my pillow will get you into that deep

1496
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REM sleep faster and you will stay there

1497
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longer it's not about how much time we

1498
01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:16,170
spend in bed it's about how much of that

1499
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quality sleep we get I do all of my own

1500
01:19:22,189 --> 01:19:20,250
manufacturing right here in the United

1501
01:19:24,109 --> 01:19:22,199
States I have a ten year warranty you

1502
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can wash and dry my pillow and I give

1503
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you a 60 day money back guarantee so you

1504
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have nothing to lose and here's my best

1505
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offer ever you can buy one of my pillows

1506
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and get one absolutely free go to my

1507
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pillow comm or call 818-384-6869 is

1508
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favored article legal issues social

1509
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media or other source showing up in your

1510
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search results you can combine it with

1511
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1512
01:20:35,060 --> 01:20:33,360
experts and patented technology can help

1513
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make your online search results look

1514
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their best

1515
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call 881 zero seven seventy one to learn

1516
01:20:41,959 --> 01:20:40,020
more eight hundred eight three one zero

1517
01:20:44,030 --> 01:20:41,969
seven seventy one that's eight hundred

1518
01:20:49,460 --> 01:20:44,040
eighty three one zero seven seventy one

1519
01:20:56,980 --> 01:20:54,480
[Music]

1520
01:20:59,110 --> 01:20:56,990
hi this is Bryce label I'm the producer

1521
01:21:01,030 --> 01:20:59,120
of dark skies the co-author of AD after

1522
01:21:03,180 --> 01:21:01,040
disclosure and you are listening to the

1523
01:21:15,750 --> 01:21:03,190
para cast the gold standard of

1524
01:21:19,690 --> 01:21:15,760
paranormal radio all right special force

1525
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:19,700
special intelligence where's the UFO out

1526
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:22,610
of this is there anything in that report

1527
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:25,850
that says UFO abduction or is it just

1528
01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:30,530
hinted oh in the doctor's report yes the

1529
01:21:37,450 --> 01:21:33,890
doctors I guess what you could say about

1530
01:21:40,110 --> 01:21:37,460
the doctor reports are that they do

1531
01:21:44,770 --> 01:21:40,120
mention what Jerry's belief seems to be

1532
01:21:48,490 --> 01:21:44,780
Jerry's belief was that whatever he saw

1533
01:21:52,630 --> 01:21:48,500
in Utah which eventually I think he did

1534
01:21:55,300 --> 01:21:52,640
call a UFO was what was causing all of

1535
01:21:58,690 --> 01:21:55,310
his his difficulties all of his

1536
01:22:03,870 --> 01:21:58,700
behavioral problems and his neurological

1537
01:22:07,870 --> 01:22:03,880
problems of course they were obviously

1538
01:22:11,350 --> 01:22:07,880
unconvinced by him what Jerry thought

1539
01:22:17,230 --> 01:22:11,360
was going on but at least they reported

1540
01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:17,240
it so as far as the doctors are

1541
01:22:23,020 --> 01:22:21,530
concerned there does us I don't think

1542
01:22:28,480 --> 01:22:23,030
they even ever considered the

1543
01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:28,490
possibility that there really was a UFO

1544
01:22:36,820 --> 01:22:33,050
and that it could have been you know

1545
01:22:38,830 --> 01:22:36,830
something that was a nonhuman craft of

1546
01:22:42,910 --> 01:22:38,840
some kind I don't think that was ever

1547
01:22:45,090 --> 01:22:42,920
even considered from what I've seen they

1548
01:22:49,330 --> 01:22:45,100
looked at it more as a mental health

1549
01:22:52,060 --> 01:22:49,340
problem I'm trying to focus here on

1550
01:22:54,010 --> 01:22:52,070
where we get the UFO connection then

1551
01:22:57,460 --> 01:22:54,020
obviously something happened he blacked

1552
01:22:59,050 --> 01:22:57,470
out maybe I assume this guy just had a

1553
01:23:00,149 --> 01:22:59,060
mental breakdown and be done with it

1554
01:23:03,770 --> 01:23:00,159
what

1555
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:03,780
yeah that's the possibility a possible

1556
01:23:11,790 --> 01:23:07,290
possibility we can completely discount I

1557
01:23:15,629 --> 01:23:11,800
think that the fullest AKOP we have from

1558
01:23:18,870 --> 01:23:15,639
of what Erland saw before he blacked out

1559
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:18,880
is pretty much a UFO this is what he

1560
01:23:23,189 --> 01:23:21,010
told the sheriff when he first recovered

1561
01:23:28,430 --> 01:23:23,199
and the sheriff was asking questions

1562
01:23:32,310 --> 01:23:28,440
right this yeah the sheriff eventually I

1563
01:23:35,430 --> 01:23:32,320
located the letter well I should say a

1564
01:23:38,729 --> 01:23:35,440
letter that the sheriff sent to I guess

1565
01:23:43,919 --> 01:23:38,739
he was a UFO researcher I hadn't heard

1566
01:23:45,750 --> 01:23:43,929
of him mark a guy named CH mark had

1567
01:23:48,030 --> 01:23:45,760
asked about it and the sheriff sent him

1568
01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:48,040
his account of what happened that night

1569
01:23:54,270 --> 01:23:51,090
and that was pretty interesting because

1570
01:23:58,379 --> 01:23:54,280
it was a more complete account than

1571
01:24:01,169 --> 01:23:58,389
Jerry seemed to recall later on so it

1572
01:24:04,890 --> 01:24:01,179
might be that the sheriff's letter

1573
01:24:08,250 --> 01:24:04,900
contains the most accurate and complete

1574
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:08,260
account of Jerry's experience I say

1575
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:11,050
might be because that depends on whether

1576
01:24:16,830 --> 01:24:13,570
or not the sheriff reported what

1577
01:24:19,459 --> 01:24:16,840
recorded it accurately but if he's if

1578
01:24:23,939 --> 01:24:19,469
what the sheriff recorded was accurate

1579
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:23,949
then it does give us some interesting

1580
01:24:30,149 --> 01:24:28,210
information in Barris account Jerry did

1581
01:24:35,310 --> 01:24:30,159
not black out right after leaving his

1582
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:35,320
car he actually remained conscious as he

1583
01:24:42,990 --> 01:24:39,850
trudged up the hill and as he the closer

1584
01:24:46,050 --> 01:24:43,000
he got to the crest of the hill the

1585
01:24:48,030 --> 01:24:46,060
brighter the light became and right when

1586
01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:48,040
he crested the hill is when he when he

1587
01:24:53,430 --> 01:24:50,050
should have when he should have seen the

1588
01:24:57,450 --> 01:24:53,440
object is when he passed out that's when

1589
01:25:00,020 --> 01:24:57,460
he told the sheriff shortly after coming

1590
01:25:02,780 --> 01:25:00,030
back to his senses on that

1591
01:25:08,230 --> 01:25:02,790
the night after his encounter or his

1592
01:25:10,850 --> 01:25:08,240
sighting so it does sound like you know

1593
01:25:14,210 --> 01:25:10,860
here's what he said in his letter he saw

1594
01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:14,220
a mr. Erwin saw an large object flying

1595
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:16,050
from south to north almost directly

1596
01:25:22,010 --> 01:25:19,130
overhead he thought it was an airplane

1597
01:25:23,870 --> 01:25:22,020
but couldn't tell the shape on account

1598
01:25:27,530 --> 01:25:23,880
of the streams of light shooting out

1599
01:25:30,230 --> 01:25:27,540
from it he said it was very large and on

1600
01:25:35,180 --> 01:25:30,240
account of the light radiating from it

1601
01:25:38,390 --> 01:25:35,190
he thought it was on fire and then he

1602
01:25:40,190 --> 01:25:38,400
could see the light to the north shining

1603
01:25:43,700 --> 01:25:40,200
up into the sky and thought the plane

1604
01:25:45,620 --> 01:25:43,710
had crashed and was burning the closer

1605
01:25:48,620 --> 01:25:45,630
he came to the top of the hill I'm sort

1606
01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:48,630
of excerpting it here he started to

1607
01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:50,610
climb the steep mountain in about a foot

1608
01:25:54,770 --> 01:25:52,290
of snow and the closer he came to the

1609
01:25:59,330 --> 01:25:54,780
top of the hill the brighter the light

1610
01:26:02,390 --> 01:25:59,340
became as he reached the top of the hill

1611
01:26:06,350 --> 01:26:02,400
he blacked out and was not for about 23

1612
01:26:10,070 --> 01:26:06,360
hours so that I mean that certainly

1613
01:26:13,940 --> 01:26:10,080
sounds like a you have fallen but but

1614
01:26:16,820 --> 01:26:13,950
it's entirely we are relying entirely on

1615
01:26:19,810 --> 01:26:16,830
what Jerry Jerry's experience was

1616
01:26:22,550 --> 01:26:19,820
because there were no other witnesses

1617
01:26:24,530 --> 01:26:22,560
what struck me about that as I read it

1618
01:26:26,750 --> 01:26:24,540
was that this is actually description of

1619
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:26,760
a specific kind if you of all people

1620
01:26:32,440 --> 01:26:29,850
report from time to time that almost

1621
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:32,450
seems aflame you know it's shooting off

1622
01:26:40,940 --> 01:26:37,410
fire and it's extremely bright and Erwin

1623
01:26:43,190 --> 01:26:40,950
also said it was quite large and so

1624
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:43,200
there's nothing in this description for

1625
01:26:49,700 --> 01:26:45,170
whatever it's worth it suggests a

1626
01:26:52,340 --> 01:26:49,710
conventional airplane or a meteor you

1627
01:26:54,530 --> 01:26:52,350
know I think we just have to decide you

1628
01:26:57,110 --> 01:26:54,540
know this testimony was accurate or not

1629
01:27:01,490 --> 01:26:57,120
better than this accurate this is a UFO

1630
01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:01,500
event and also Jerry remarked even when

1631
01:27:09,350 --> 01:27:05,690
I spoke to him in 2014

1632
01:27:11,939 --> 01:27:09,360
he still he still remembers that initial

1633
01:27:14,669 --> 01:27:11,949
sighting and he remembers that

1634
01:27:20,850 --> 01:27:14,679
it seemed to be coming down awfully slow

1635
01:27:24,650 --> 01:27:20,860
for for something like a honor as he

1636
01:27:30,290 --> 01:27:24,660
said on a free fall it seemed to be a

1637
01:27:33,689 --> 01:27:30,300
little too slow like it was it was very

1638
01:27:36,450 --> 01:27:33,699
confusing to him he just was surprised

1639
01:27:39,450 --> 01:27:36,460
by the speed of it maybe a hundred miles

1640
01:27:43,380 --> 01:27:39,460
an hour I think is what he said when he

1641
01:27:45,780 --> 01:27:43,390
had to guess just quickly going through

1642
01:27:51,560 --> 01:27:45,790
his life once he got out of the military

1643
01:27:55,919 --> 01:27:51,570
what happened he he got he got work with

1644
01:28:02,840 --> 01:27:55,929
Eastman Kodak in the microfilm

1645
01:28:08,970 --> 01:28:02,850
technology he serviced microfilm

1646
01:28:14,990 --> 01:28:08,980
machines and then quickly was promoted

1647
01:28:22,020 --> 01:28:15,000
to the to become an instructor of

1648
01:28:26,370 --> 01:28:22,030
servicing the machines and they they

1649
01:28:28,110 --> 01:28:26,380
shipped him to from Oregon he got he

1650
01:28:31,140 --> 01:28:28,120
first worked in Portland Oregon doing

1651
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:31,150
that and Kodak shipped him out to New

1652
01:28:39,720 --> 01:28:37,810
York Rochester New York to to to their

1653
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:39,730
school to the Kodak school where they

1654
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:42,850
teach technicians and eventually they

1655
01:28:52,590 --> 01:28:47,050
sent him out to San Francisco to work as

1656
01:28:56,100 --> 01:28:52,600
a supervisor so he his career was both

1657
01:29:00,150 --> 01:28:56,110
in his later army career and in his

1658
01:29:03,810 --> 01:29:00,160
civilian life he he did quite well from

1659
01:29:10,939 --> 01:29:03,820
a career standpoint was able to take an

1660
01:29:19,080 --> 01:29:15,000
what word rich retirement pension

1661
01:29:22,170 --> 01:29:19,090
pension yeah and

1662
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:22,180
that's the thing that makes me wonder

1663
01:29:29,570 --> 01:29:25,690
about he didn't seem to exhibit the

1664
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:29,580
symptoms of someone with mental problems

1665
01:29:38,250 --> 01:29:34,770
he before and after this year of trouble

1666
01:29:44,340 --> 01:29:38,260
he hadn't been a great career in the

1667
01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:44,350
army and he had later on when he went

1668
01:29:51,810 --> 01:29:46,690
back to regular duty in the army he rose

1669
01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:51,820
quickly in the race and in the end then

1670
01:29:57,450 --> 01:29:53,770
it's villian life he did quite well and

1671
01:30:02,700 --> 01:29:57,460
there's just no indication that then he

1672
01:30:05,160 --> 01:30:02,710
had a mental problem after that year did

1673
01:30:06,680 --> 01:30:05,170
anything happen to him ever that was

1674
01:30:11,360 --> 01:30:06,690
weird

1675
01:30:13,890 --> 01:30:11,370
not that he remembers all right now

1676
01:30:16,590 --> 01:30:13,900
let's go into this starting in our next

1677
01:30:18,870 --> 01:30:16,600
segment the possibility of government

1678
01:30:21,630 --> 01:30:18,880
involvement because of the way the

1679
01:30:22,290 --> 01:30:21,640
information was kept from him David

1680
01:30:24,030 --> 01:30:22,300
Bowie

1681
01:30:31,330 --> 01:30:24,040
Jerome Clark Jean Steinberg Chris

1682
01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:37,759
[Music]

1683
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1778
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Micah Hanks to the graylien report and

1779
01:35:00,150 --> 01:34:57,970
you're listening to the Peres cast the

1780
01:35:07,830 --> 01:35:00,160
gold standard of paranormal radio

1781
01:35:11,020 --> 01:35:07,840
[Music]

1782
01:35:13,540 --> 01:35:11,030
okay so obviously the doctor who

1783
01:35:16,930 --> 01:35:13,550
examined him doesn't disclose what he

1784
01:35:20,410 --> 01:35:16,940
said under truth serum all these side

1785
01:35:23,350 --> 01:35:20,420
issues is there anything here that leads

1786
01:35:25,810 --> 01:35:23,360
you to believe he got maybe involved

1787
01:35:29,340 --> 01:35:25,820
unwittingly perhaps in some kind of

1788
01:35:33,640 --> 01:35:29,350
government operation well I'm very

1789
01:35:36,160 --> 01:35:33,650
interested in the apparent attempt to

1790
01:35:39,130 --> 01:35:36,170
block him block Jerry's pointlessness

1791
01:35:42,310 --> 01:35:39,140
for hypnotic regression there should

1792
01:35:44,170 --> 01:35:42,320
have been no problem yeah with him doing

1793
01:35:46,630 --> 01:35:44,180
whatever he wanted to on his free time

1794
01:35:49,360 --> 01:35:46,640
so that raises questions

1795
01:35:52,780 --> 01:35:49,370
another thing that raises questions is

1796
01:35:56,800 --> 01:35:52,790
that it looks like there was probably a

1797
01:36:00,780 --> 01:35:56,810
second amytal interview this this is

1798
01:36:04,300 --> 01:36:00,790
something that I I uncovered as I was

1799
01:36:07,540 --> 01:36:04,310
comparing the date lines the timelines

1800
01:36:09,730 --> 01:36:07,550
of the army records versus Jerry's

1801
01:36:13,780 --> 01:36:09,740
memory that was recorded by the law

1802
01:36:18,150 --> 01:36:13,790
resins in comparing those two it appears

1803
01:36:20,290 --> 01:36:18,160
that there's an interview that was not

1804
01:36:23,290 --> 01:36:20,300
recorded in the official records and

1805
01:36:25,650 --> 01:36:23,300
then in that also there's an amytal

1806
01:36:29,610 --> 01:36:25,660
interview that Jerry doesn't remember

1807
01:36:33,490 --> 01:36:29,620
which is pretty interesting and it is

1808
01:36:35,890 --> 01:36:33,500
quite interesting that right after he

1809
01:36:39,190 --> 01:36:35,900
was released from the psych ward he

1810
01:36:42,940 --> 01:36:39,200
immediately goes to Utah in a trance it

1811
01:36:45,160 --> 01:36:42,950
seems very similar to something like

1812
01:36:48,370 --> 01:36:45,170
hypnotic suggestion post hypnotic

1813
01:36:51,040 --> 01:36:48,380
suggestion which which is something that

1814
01:36:53,980 --> 01:36:51,050
Jim Lorenzen speculated about although

1815
01:36:56,170 --> 01:36:53,990
he didn't in the end he favored a

1816
01:36:58,720 --> 01:36:56,180
different hypothesis he certainly

1817
01:37:01,120 --> 01:36:58,730
thought it was a intriguing possibility

1818
01:37:05,200 --> 01:37:01,130
that Jerry was subjected to posthypnotic

1819
01:37:07,240 --> 01:37:05,210
suggestion no if that happened it seems

1820
01:37:11,410 --> 01:37:07,250
unlikely to me it happened with his

1821
01:37:15,730 --> 01:37:11,420
regular doctor his regular doctor he was

1822
01:37:17,500 --> 01:37:15,740
not drafted a army doctor who he was

1823
01:37:20,020 --> 01:37:17,510
just doing his job from what I can tell

1824
01:37:21,970 --> 01:37:20,030
I don't see why he would get involved in

1825
01:37:25,209 --> 01:37:21,980
trying to

1826
01:37:29,709 --> 01:37:25,219
program Jerry to go and destroy evidence

1827
01:37:32,470 --> 01:37:29,719
so to speak so it does seem likely to me

1828
01:37:35,890 --> 01:37:32,480
that if there was this second interview

1829
01:37:39,669 --> 01:37:35,900
as Jerry remembers that it wasn't with

1830
01:37:42,910 --> 01:37:39,679
his regular doctor okay so this is then

1831
01:37:44,410 --> 01:37:42,920
a doctor that they selected for him he

1832
01:37:49,840 --> 01:37:44,420
was just a doctor working on a psych

1833
01:37:54,790 --> 01:37:49,850
ward dr. Valentine eventually Jerry saw

1834
01:37:58,060 --> 01:37:54,800
another doctor because dr. Valentine his

1835
01:37:59,129 --> 01:37:58,070
term was up and he left his two-year

1836
01:38:05,890 --> 01:37:59,139
draft

1837
01:38:08,700 --> 01:38:05,900
supervising doctor is the one who

1838
01:38:13,330 --> 01:38:08,710
finished up with Jerry before he left

1839
01:38:15,700 --> 01:38:13,340
for the last time and both of these if

1840
01:38:20,470 --> 01:38:15,710
you read the the records that they wrote

1841
01:38:27,669 --> 01:38:20,480
there both they both seem pretty much no

1842
01:38:29,709 --> 01:38:27,679
nonsense kind of psychiatrists or MDS so

1843
01:38:33,640 --> 01:38:29,719
I don't think it was anything they did I

1844
01:38:36,580 --> 01:38:33,650
would be highly I'd be very doubtful so

1845
01:38:40,320 --> 01:38:36,590
I think that if there was something

1846
01:38:43,530 --> 01:38:40,330
going on in terms of messing with

1847
01:38:48,459 --> 01:38:43,540
Jerry's mind I think it would have been

1848
01:38:51,600 --> 01:38:48,469
someone else and you know possibly

1849
01:38:56,129 --> 01:38:51,610
associated with MKULTRA or

1850
01:39:00,160 --> 01:38:56,139
counterintelligence or someone like that

1851
01:39:02,520 --> 01:39:00,170
if so the regular medical staff maybe

1852
01:39:04,990 --> 01:39:02,530
you didn't know anything about it

1853
01:39:09,550 --> 01:39:05,000
well David don't you think that's this

1854
01:39:12,459 --> 01:39:09,560
that the authorities and Irwin superiors

1855
01:39:15,520 --> 01:39:12,469
would naturally look at this from a

1856
01:39:17,979 --> 01:39:15,530
national security point of view thinking

1857
01:39:20,830 --> 01:39:17,989
that this guy could have been you know

1858
01:39:23,260 --> 01:39:20,840
abducted by hostile foreign agents and

1859
01:39:26,020 --> 01:39:23,270
messed with and they want to investigate

1860
01:39:29,320 --> 01:39:26,030
that possibility it seems to me that

1861
01:39:31,419 --> 01:39:29,330
that is that if you want to explain

1862
01:39:32,709 --> 01:39:31,429
their behavior that works better than

1863
01:39:35,540 --> 01:39:32,719
calling

1864
01:39:39,580 --> 01:39:35,550
MKULTRA conspiracy which seems kind of

1865
01:39:41,390 --> 01:39:39,590
clunky and unlikely for various reasons

1866
01:39:44,780 --> 01:39:41,400
well I think you raise a good point

1867
01:39:49,180 --> 01:39:44,790
because this was at the height of the

1868
01:39:53,030 --> 01:39:49,190
Cold War and as you as you say that

1869
01:39:56,629 --> 01:39:53,040
those concerns were foremost in the

1870
01:39:57,740 --> 01:39:56,639
minds of the military establishment so

1871
01:40:01,399 --> 01:39:57,750
that very well

1872
01:40:03,290 --> 01:40:01,409
that makes sense what you say remember

1873
01:40:06,800 --> 01:40:03,300
there was a great deal of concern during

1874
01:40:09,649 --> 01:40:06,810
the Korean War that that American

1875
01:40:12,950 --> 01:40:09,659
prisoners of war had been messed with by

1876
01:40:14,930 --> 01:40:12,960
the North Koreans Chinese and that

1877
01:40:18,110 --> 01:40:14,940
they've been brainwashed as but the

1878
01:40:20,750 --> 01:40:18,120
whole concept comes from so naturally

1879
01:40:23,870 --> 01:40:20,760
this guy comes in literally out of the

1880
01:40:26,360 --> 01:40:23,880
cold in this really messed up mental

1881
01:40:28,729 --> 01:40:26,370
state and I think they would be natural

1882
01:40:32,479 --> 01:40:28,739
for them to wonder if something had been

1883
01:40:36,669 --> 01:40:32,489
done to get him to reveal the secrets or

1884
01:40:38,870 --> 01:40:36,679
to act unconsciously as an agent of

1885
01:40:40,459 --> 01:40:38,880
presumably the Soviet Union you know

1886
01:40:43,790 --> 01:40:40,469
whatever yes

1887
01:40:45,860 --> 01:40:43,800
hostile power was involved it seems to

1888
01:40:47,990 --> 01:40:45,870
me that what they were doing at least

1889
01:40:49,910 --> 01:40:48,000
from my reading and I don't claim this

1890
01:40:56,060 --> 01:40:49,920
is the final word on the subject

1891
01:40:58,129 --> 01:40:56,070
was just examining I think from what I

1892
01:41:00,050 --> 01:40:58,139
understand your book it sounded as if

1893
01:41:03,229 --> 01:41:00,060
some of these people thought this guy

1894
01:41:06,260 --> 01:41:03,239
was just goofing off and making up a

1895
01:41:09,649 --> 01:41:06,270
story or other people wondered if this

1896
01:41:12,740 --> 01:41:09,659
is something sinister but I don't find

1897
01:41:15,700 --> 01:41:12,750
any convincing evidence that said he was

1898
01:41:18,470 --> 01:41:15,710
picked on by this CIA or something to

1899
01:41:22,660 --> 01:41:18,480
his head that doesn't make any sense at

1900
01:41:25,510 --> 01:41:22,670
all also if you study the history and

1901
01:41:27,890 --> 01:41:25,520
you have an interesting account of it

1902
01:41:30,169 --> 01:41:27,900
most of these these were controlled

1903
01:41:32,810 --> 01:41:30,179
experiments they weren't plucking people

1904
01:41:36,950 --> 01:41:32,820
off the street they wanted them in some

1905
01:41:39,350 --> 01:41:36,960
place in the mid-1950s a guy named Frank

1906
01:41:44,210 --> 01:41:39,360
Olson who was a civilian army employee

1907
01:41:46,700 --> 01:41:44,220
in Washington slipped LSB without his

1908
01:41:47,750 --> 01:41:46,710
without his knowledge ended up jumping

1909
01:41:53,450 --> 01:41:47,760
on a window

1910
01:41:55,580 --> 01:41:53,460
and this was a very bad Manan object

1911
01:41:57,320 --> 01:41:55,590
lesson that when the CIA did these

1912
01:41:59,780 --> 01:41:57,330
things which it should never been doing

1913
01:42:02,630 --> 01:41:59,790
in the first place of course but it had

1914
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:02,640
to be in better control the situation to

1915
01:42:07,910 --> 01:42:04,530
keep it a secret to the MKULTRA

1916
01:42:09,470 --> 01:42:07,920
experiments work for a secret for a long

1917
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:09,480
time I don't think they were exposed

1918
01:42:17,660 --> 01:42:13,530
until 1975 by Senator Kerry's Committee

1919
01:42:22,580 --> 01:42:17,670
which was investigating CIA misdeeds as

1920
01:42:27,320 --> 01:42:22,590
we know in 1973 the then say director

1921
01:42:30,130 --> 01:42:27,330
Richard Helms directed that all MKULTRA

1922
01:42:34,520 --> 01:42:30,140
records be burned so our knowledge

1923
01:42:37,190 --> 01:42:34,530
incomplete but it does leave open no end

1924
01:42:40,160 --> 01:42:37,200
of conspiracy theories and conspiracy

1925
01:42:42,590 --> 01:42:40,170
theories usually just have us running in

1926
01:42:45,800 --> 01:42:42,600
circles I think that I always go for the

1927
01:42:53,450 --> 01:42:45,810
more economic explanation which is the

1928
01:42:55,610 --> 01:42:53,460
one well would you flush that out a

1929
01:42:57,230 --> 01:42:55,620
little bit I'm interested in where do

1930
01:42:57,720 --> 01:42:57,240
you think that how that would have

1931
01:43:00,340 --> 01:42:57,730
unfolded

1932
01:43:03,640 --> 01:43:00,350
[Music]

1933
01:43:09,130 --> 01:43:03,650
your idea about their concern about

1934
01:43:13,150 --> 01:43:09,140
possible foreign in-country foreign

1935
01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:13,160
intelligence this was an unusual event

1936
01:43:19,190 --> 01:43:16,890
this is a military guy and it's really

1937
01:43:21,770 --> 01:43:19,200
peculiar so naturally it's not just

1938
01:43:24,950 --> 01:43:21,780
going to be God so they are going to

1939
01:43:28,670 --> 01:43:24,960
investigate as they did investigate and

1940
01:43:30,560 --> 01:43:28,680
I think as I read your comment as I said

1941
01:43:33,860 --> 01:43:30,570
earlier some of the people who were

1942
01:43:37,670 --> 01:43:33,870
looking into whatever was in hidden

1943
01:43:40,490 --> 01:43:37,680
inside Irwin's head covered by amnesia

1944
01:43:42,350 --> 01:43:40,500
some thought this is just some goofy

1945
01:43:45,110 --> 01:43:42,360
guys making this up

1946
01:43:47,200 --> 01:43:45,120
and other people thought that something

1947
01:43:51,200 --> 01:43:47,210
was going on so that's why he was given

1948
01:43:53,750 --> 01:43:51,210
sodium pentathol and he was examined and

1949
01:43:56,970 --> 01:43:53,760
hospitalized I think they were genuinely

1950
01:43:59,040 --> 01:43:56,980
puzzled and even some of them at least

1951
01:44:02,130 --> 01:43:59,050
we're a little alarmed about what might

1952
01:44:04,040 --> 01:44:02,140
have happened in the 1950s which I

1953
01:44:06,900 --> 01:44:04,050
probably remember better than you do

1954
01:44:11,310 --> 01:44:06,910
there was a lot of concern about

1955
01:44:15,630 --> 01:44:11,320
brainwashing and that's how the CIA got

1956
01:44:20,100 --> 01:44:15,640
among MKULTRA to begin with to see if it

1957
01:44:22,590 --> 01:44:20,110
could control behavior and that they

1958
01:44:25,140 --> 01:44:22,600
might have thought of this as something

1959
01:44:27,750 --> 01:44:25,150
like but had gone on during the Korean

1960
01:44:30,030 --> 01:44:27,760
War that efforts are made to mess with

1961
01:44:33,360 --> 01:44:30,040
the brains of soldiers and and to make

1962
01:44:35,820 --> 01:44:33,370
them you know agents and to make them

1963
01:44:37,640 --> 01:44:35,830
think and feel and say things that they

1964
01:44:39,810 --> 01:44:37,650
would not have said in their ordinary

1965
01:44:44,160 --> 01:44:39,820
state of consciousness

1966
01:44:46,740 --> 01:44:44,170
you know what MKULTRA comes in I it's

1967
01:44:50,790 --> 01:44:46,750
certainly not impossible it just seems

1968
01:44:53,250 --> 01:44:50,800
to me unlikely and unnecessary because

1969
01:44:55,890 --> 01:44:53,260
they wouldn't have had any control over

1970
01:45:00,300 --> 01:44:55,900
this experiment and they really kept

1971
01:45:02,070 --> 01:45:00,310
their experiments under control for

1972
01:45:04,410 --> 01:45:02,080
example some of them were prisoners

1973
01:45:08,040 --> 01:45:04,420
people like that who just we're not

1974
01:45:10,080 --> 01:45:08,050
roaming out in free space and this would

1975
01:45:13,530 --> 01:45:10,090
have been an experiment conducted in

1976
01:45:16,470 --> 01:45:13,540
free space with no control over what

1977
01:45:19,410 --> 01:45:16,480
would come of it we've got your um Clark

1978
01:45:27,540 --> 01:45:19,420
David barging and Kris you're in the

1979
01:45:37,489 --> 01:45:31,489
you are listening to GCN

1980
01:45:39,439 --> 01:45:37,499
visit GCN live.com today we also have

1981
01:45:42,890 --> 01:45:39,449
swag you know we have all these

1982
01:45:43,459 --> 01:45:42,900
exclusive power cast things that you can

1983
01:45:45,379 --> 01:45:43,469
buy

1984
01:45:48,229 --> 01:45:45,389
we've got like I guess 60 or so

1985
01:45:51,799 --> 01:45:48,239
different items and entails t-shirts

1986
01:45:55,100 --> 01:45:51,809
sleeves for notebook computers iPad

1987
01:45:57,469 --> 01:45:55,110
cases mouse pads the para cast jumbo

1988
01:45:59,239 --> 01:45:57,479
tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

1989
01:46:02,479 --> 01:45:59,249
jackets and stuff like that for men and

1990
01:46:04,790 --> 01:46:02,489
women we have a para cast aluminum water

1991
01:46:07,729 --> 01:46:04,800
bottle all the stuff you go to stored

1992
01:46:10,430 --> 01:46:07,739
onto the para cast com stored dot the

1993
01:46:13,040 --> 01:46:10,440
para cast come what makes it special is

1994
01:46:15,950 --> 01:46:13,050
that the items are the best quality of

1995
01:46:17,689 --> 01:46:15,960
great t-shirts fabrics and they have our

1996
01:46:19,489 --> 01:46:17,699
official logo on them that's what makes

1997
01:46:20,180 --> 01:46:19,499
them special in multiple sizes and

1998
01:46:22,969 --> 01:46:20,190
colors

1999
01:46:25,310 --> 01:46:22,979
we even have stuff for children stuff

2000
01:46:28,250 --> 01:46:25,320
for women stuff for men we have all

2001
01:46:30,259 --> 01:46:28,260
sorts of sizes like small up 2x large a

2002
01:46:32,870 --> 01:46:30,269
lot of good stuff that's the swag from

2003
01:46:35,959 --> 01:46:32,880
the para cast to go to steward dot ^

2004
01:46:40,700 --> 01:46:35,969
cast com stop by and take a shopping

2005
01:46:42,799 --> 01:46:40,710
tour the answer to being in control of

2006
01:46:45,080 --> 01:46:42,809
your own health care is freedom from

2007
01:46:47,089 --> 01:46:45,090
insurance become part of a group of

2008
01:46:49,189 --> 01:46:47,099
self-pay patients that come together to

2009
01:46:51,890 --> 01:46:49,199
share in each other's medical expenses

2010
01:46:54,439 --> 01:46:51,900
individual share amounts begin at 107

2011
01:46:55,939 --> 01:46:54,449
dollars a month and 347 for families

2012
01:46:57,739 --> 01:46:55,949
choose from three health sharing

2013
01:46:59,660 --> 01:46:57,749
programs holistic treatments may be

2014
01:47:01,759 --> 01:46:59,670
eligible for sharing see guidelines

2015
01:47:04,250 --> 01:47:01,769
discount programs available for dental

2016
01:47:07,989 --> 01:47:04,260
vision and pharmacy go to Liberty on

2017
01:47:11,120 --> 01:47:07,999
call org that Liberty on call org

2018
01:47:12,799 --> 01:47:11,130
lifetime grace 100% grass-fed beef has

2019
01:47:14,419 --> 01:47:12,809
the health benefits you seek when

2020
01:47:16,279 --> 01:47:14,429
compared to conventional beef it offers

2021
01:47:18,200 --> 01:47:16,289
good fats while virtually eliminating

2022
01:47:20,299 --> 01:47:18,210
the bad that's the result of cattle who

2023
01:47:22,339 --> 01:47:20,309
never eat grain ever rich in

2024
01:47:24,890 --> 01:47:22,349
antioxidants including vitamin E C

2025
01:47:26,959 --> 01:47:24,900
beta-carotene and CLA no artificial

2026
01:47:28,790 --> 01:47:26,969
hormones antibiotics or other drugs were

2027
01:47:31,459 --> 01:47:28,800
all our fresh non cooked products with

2028
01:47:33,859 --> 01:47:31,469
only 100% grass-fed beef go to Mitas

2029
01:47:35,870 --> 01:47:33,869
resources comm news voucher code GCN to

2030
01:47:40,940 --> 01:47:35,880
get 30% off your order midas resources

2031
01:47:45,180 --> 01:47:41,770
[Applause]

2032
01:47:52,750 --> 01:47:48,580
welcome back to to the para cast the

2033
01:48:00,180 --> 01:47:52,760
gold standard of paranormal radio and

2034
01:48:07,750 --> 01:48:04,109
so Derek Fox continuing hear about these

2035
01:48:17,140 --> 01:48:07,760
government shenanigans programs what

2036
01:48:19,240 --> 01:48:17,150
Jerry I think this is just a dead end

2037
01:48:21,819 --> 01:48:19,250
one thing that we should have learned

2038
01:48:25,089 --> 01:48:21,829
from all these years and that we have

2039
01:48:27,430 --> 01:48:25,099
followed UFOs trying to figure out not

2040
01:48:29,859 --> 01:48:27,440
only what they are but what officials

2041
01:48:32,109 --> 01:48:29,869
are might know about them is that we

2042
01:48:34,629 --> 01:48:32,119
really ought to be skeptical of people

2043
01:48:38,470 --> 01:48:34,639
who come forward with unverified stories

2044
01:48:42,819 --> 01:48:38,480
and say yes I saw bodies I studied

2045
01:48:45,780 --> 01:48:42,829
wreckage these stories are always told

2046
01:48:49,089 --> 01:48:45,790
by somebody who's looking you in the eye

2047
01:48:51,780 --> 01:48:49,099
this most of the time but they never go

2048
01:48:54,819 --> 01:48:51,790
anywhere eventually they just prove

2049
01:48:56,589 --> 01:48:54,829
useless it's just like okay tell me a

2050
01:48:58,270 --> 01:48:56,599
story cuz that's all a man to his

2051
01:49:01,750 --> 01:48:58,280
stories one of the stories in

2052
01:49:05,740 --> 01:49:01,760
circulation is that some time years and

2053
01:49:08,290 --> 01:49:05,750
years ago in 1950s and 60s to say was

2054
01:49:10,419 --> 01:49:08,300
roaming free throughout the back waters

2055
01:49:14,140 --> 01:49:10,429
of some South American countries and

2056
01:49:16,299 --> 01:49:14,150
grabbing people and doing stuff to them

2057
01:49:18,790 --> 01:49:16,309
drugging them and hypnotizing them and

2058
01:49:21,160 --> 01:49:18,800
doing other stuff to them jolting their

2059
01:49:23,500 --> 01:49:21,170
brains with electricity and making them

2060
01:49:25,359 --> 01:49:23,510
believe that they'd seen UFOs and that

2061
01:49:26,229 --> 01:49:25,369
you have four encounters now that's a

2062
01:49:29,080 --> 01:49:26,239
great story

2063
01:49:31,510 --> 01:49:29,090
there is zero evidence for it another

2064
01:49:34,149 --> 01:49:31,520
reason to be skeptical of it is if this

2065
01:49:36,549 --> 01:49:34,159
were true this is not a UFO story this

2066
01:49:38,950 --> 01:49:36,559
would be something that journalists and

2067
01:49:42,280 --> 01:49:38,960
historians would study the history of

2068
01:49:44,950 --> 01:49:42,290
the CIA would have come across somewhere

2069
01:49:46,780 --> 01:49:44,960
and historians and journalists the state

2070
01:49:49,330 --> 01:49:46,790
they have exposed all kinds of

2071
01:49:54,040 --> 01:49:49,340
interesting secrets some of them quite

2072
01:49:55,850 --> 01:49:54,050
shameful but no nobody has ever even

2073
01:49:57,859 --> 01:49:55,860
hinted in any history

2074
01:50:00,770 --> 01:49:57,869
I hate that I've read or consultants

2075
01:50:02,930 --> 01:50:00,780
that experiments like this were going on

2076
01:50:06,500 --> 01:50:02,940
and they would be complicated they would

2077
01:50:09,470 --> 01:50:06,510
involve payoffs to governments and other

2078
01:50:11,570 --> 01:50:09,480
people to keep it be I mean South

2079
01:50:14,240 --> 01:50:11,580
American governments and other people to

2080
01:50:17,930 --> 01:50:14,250
keep this thing hidden there is no hint

2081
01:50:20,810 --> 01:50:17,940
of this except in somebody's anonymous

2082
01:50:23,450 --> 01:50:20,820
story that probably is every bit as

2083
01:50:26,810 --> 01:50:23,460
credible as the next guy who tells you

2084
01:50:28,760 --> 01:50:26,820
that he that he saw bodies alien beings

2085
01:50:31,540 --> 01:50:28,770
and a crash these stories don't go

2086
01:50:34,459 --> 01:50:31,550
anywhere either it just isn't worth

2087
01:50:36,830 --> 01:50:34,469
taking these stories seriously if

2088
01:50:42,020 --> 01:50:36,840
someone says that to you the proper

2089
01:50:44,750 --> 01:50:42,030
answer is give me some reason it sounds

2090
01:50:47,120 --> 01:50:44,760
too random to me the details of the case

2091
01:50:49,720 --> 01:50:47,130
that sound like he's just the wrong guy

2092
01:50:52,100 --> 01:50:49,730
in the wrong place at the wrong time

2093
01:50:55,220 --> 01:50:52,110
there doesn't really appear on the

2094
01:50:57,280 --> 01:50:55,230
surface to be any indication of him

2095
01:51:01,310 --> 01:50:57,290
being selected out you know some sort of

2096
01:51:04,010 --> 01:51:01,320
premeditated operation that had you know

2097
01:51:07,010 --> 01:51:04,020
him as the human guinea pig on the other

2098
01:51:10,430 --> 01:51:07,020
end of the deal so I think I agree with

2099
01:51:13,280 --> 01:51:10,440
Jerry that this sounds sounds like a

2100
01:51:15,350 --> 01:51:13,290
legitimate case I mean let's not forget

2101
01:51:19,220 --> 01:51:15,360
that there's really very little

2102
01:51:20,240 --> 01:51:19,230
precedent for it prior to this so it

2103
01:51:22,550 --> 01:51:20,250
sounds like something definitely

2104
01:51:25,790 --> 01:51:22,560
happened to the guy and I don't think it

2105
01:51:28,609 --> 01:51:25,800
has the earmarks of some intelligence

2106
01:51:31,550 --> 01:51:28,619
operation as as Jerry very Seikaly

2107
01:51:35,000 --> 01:51:31,560
points out Jerry since we raised that

2108
01:51:37,129 --> 01:51:35,010
what about Barney and Betty Hill is that

2109
01:51:40,640 --> 01:51:37,139
possibly some kind of government

2110
01:51:43,399 --> 01:51:40,650
operation I don't play that for a second

2111
01:51:46,700 --> 01:51:43,409
no the one thing there's no evidence for

2112
01:51:49,010 --> 01:51:46,710
one thing we have a whole lot of UFO

2113
01:51:51,320 --> 01:51:49,020
abduction stories however you want to

2114
01:51:53,300 --> 01:51:51,330
interpret them but there there's no

2115
01:51:56,810 --> 01:51:53,310
shortage of people walking the earth who

2116
01:51:59,840 --> 01:51:56,820
believe sincerely that they've had you

2117
01:52:02,780 --> 01:51:59,850
know shocking and unwelcome experiences

2118
01:52:04,910 --> 01:52:02,790
with aliens aboard UFOs unless you

2119
01:52:07,399 --> 01:52:04,920
believe the government is behind all of

2120
01:52:08,990 --> 01:52:07,409
that which I know you don't but there's

2121
01:52:09,470 --> 01:52:09,000
no reason to think that the hill case

2122
01:52:12,230 --> 01:52:09,480
was

2123
01:52:14,720 --> 01:52:12,240
any other than that case that there's

2124
01:52:17,120 --> 01:52:14,730
always going to be a first case that

2125
01:52:19,520 --> 01:52:17,130
alerts us to something and this turned

2126
01:52:23,000 --> 01:52:19,530
out to be a first case again if the

2127
01:52:26,390 --> 01:52:23,010
Erwin case were just a one-off or if the

2128
01:52:29,810 --> 01:52:26,400
hill case we're just some unique anomaly

2129
01:52:33,320 --> 01:52:29,820
never aired up before since yes then

2130
01:52:36,080 --> 01:52:33,330
maybe we could think well maybe this is

2131
01:52:38,150 --> 01:52:36,090
something really different from your

2132
01:52:42,380 --> 01:52:38,160
ordinary run of Close Encounters of the

2133
01:52:46,040 --> 01:52:42,390
Third Kind but that isn't the case so

2134
01:52:48,940 --> 01:52:46,050
what's your feeling David well I think

2135
01:52:52,430 --> 01:52:48,950
those are really good points one thing

2136
01:52:53,990 --> 01:52:52,440
some of the questions we probably won't

2137
01:52:58,070 --> 01:52:54,000
ever have answers for these questions

2138
01:53:01,610 --> 01:52:58,080
but I do have questions about what could

2139
01:53:07,220 --> 01:53:01,620
account for the strange behavior that

2140
01:53:10,340 --> 01:53:07,230
led to his return to Utah that's one the

2141
01:53:13,610 --> 01:53:10,350
other is with the for example the bills

2142
01:53:17,060 --> 01:53:13,620
bonus case now that's all speculation

2143
01:53:19,580 --> 01:53:17,070
whether there was a government intrigue

2144
01:53:21,500 --> 01:53:19,590
in his case but I go the into that in

2145
01:53:25,070 --> 01:53:21,510
the book some of them are pretty

2146
01:53:27,610 --> 01:53:25,080
suggestive details and that's why I

2147
01:53:32,390 --> 01:53:27,620
brought up the villas-boas case because

2148
01:53:35,500 --> 01:53:32,400
if that does in fact case did include

2149
01:53:39,010 --> 01:53:35,510
government intrigue then perhaps that

2150
01:53:43,460 --> 01:53:39,020
has implications for Jerry's case

2151
01:53:49,660 --> 01:53:43,470
because there are some similarities as

2152
01:53:53,930 --> 01:53:49,670
far as the controlled experiment aspect

2153
01:53:58,730 --> 01:53:53,940
Jerry did spend seven months in lockup

2154
01:54:00,950 --> 01:53:58,740
ad at the Fort Leavenworth u.s.

2155
01:54:03,710 --> 01:54:00,960
disciplinary barracks and right next

2156
01:54:10,840 --> 01:54:03,720
door they were conducting LSD

2157
01:54:13,430 --> 01:54:10,850
experiments at the fort under MKULTRA or

2158
01:54:15,560 --> 01:54:13,440
and so yeah I think that was under

2159
01:54:17,880 --> 01:54:15,570
MKULTRA or it could have been under the

2160
01:54:20,030 --> 01:54:17,890
chemical core there

2161
01:54:23,820 --> 01:54:20,040
it's in the book one way or the other

2162
01:54:26,090 --> 01:54:23,830
after thee and be depa so it right it

2163
01:54:33,600 --> 01:54:26,100
isn't before it

2164
01:54:35,640 --> 01:54:33,610
if I remember right yeah so and and the

2165
01:54:39,830 --> 01:54:35,650
fact that he Jerry does not even

2166
01:54:44,580 --> 01:54:39,840
remember being in that facility ever

2167
01:54:46,260 --> 01:54:44,590
that's intriguing to me why why would

2168
01:54:50,100 --> 01:54:46,270
that just be completely gone from his

2169
01:54:53,160 --> 01:54:50,110
memory so I don't know I mean I'm just

2170
01:54:57,180 --> 01:54:53,170
putting questions out there but I think

2171
01:55:00,660 --> 01:54:57,190
that are there at least our legitimate

2172
01:55:03,960 --> 01:55:00,670
questions let's put it that way someone

2173
01:55:08,250 --> 01:55:03,970
why jump in Chris well you know again I

2174
01:55:09,780 --> 01:55:08,260
I it just doesn't have have the it

2175
01:55:12,740 --> 01:55:09,790
doesn't pass the smell test

2176
01:55:17,420 --> 01:55:12,750
for some sort of government operation

2177
01:55:20,400 --> 01:55:17,430
now just to clarify something real quick

2178
01:55:23,340 --> 01:55:20,410
he was in Leavenworth as a result what

2179
01:55:29,880 --> 01:55:23,350
of his going AWOL or why was he in

2180
01:55:35,780 --> 01:55:29,890
Leavenworth yeah I guess I'm giving kind

2181
01:55:41,750 --> 01:55:35,790
of a spoiler there but that's when he

2182
01:55:41,760 --> 01:55:46,940
that's that's what where he ended up

2183
01:55:53,400 --> 01:55:49,650
well then that that suggested that if

2184
01:55:56,850 --> 01:55:53,410
there was you know just by happenstance

2185
01:55:59,640 --> 01:55:56,860
and by coincidence some sort of mind

2186
01:56:01,050 --> 01:55:59,650
control operation going on with some of

2187
01:56:03,420 --> 01:56:01,060
the inmates there at Leavenworth whether

2188
01:56:06,960 --> 01:56:03,430
it be with psychedelics or other other

2189
01:56:08,430 --> 01:56:06,970
things under artichoke or whatever I'm

2190
01:56:09,870 --> 01:56:08,440
not even sure what what program was

2191
01:56:12,630 --> 01:56:09,880
being operated there you're right it

2192
01:56:14,160 --> 01:56:12,640
could be Sidney Gottlieb in the Army

2193
01:56:18,180 --> 01:56:14,170
chemical Corps or something going on

2194
01:56:20,100 --> 01:56:18,190
there it's all after the fact so it's

2195
01:56:23,700 --> 01:56:20,110
you know the cart

2196
01:56:28,860 --> 01:56:23,710
the carts already passed the the horse

2197
01:56:31,230 --> 01:56:28,870
by here I'm just trying to to zero down

2198
01:56:36,060 --> 01:56:31,240
zero zero in and drill down

2199
01:56:38,760 --> 01:56:36,070
the initial event and from from what I

2200
01:56:43,140 --> 01:56:38,770
can tell it sounds like just the wrong

2201
01:56:45,630 --> 01:56:43,150
place at the wrong time and and that it

2202
01:56:49,230 --> 01:56:45,640
does have the earmarks of a real

2203
01:56:51,720 --> 01:56:49,240
legitimate case just a quick comment on

2204
01:56:56,520 --> 01:56:51,730
the villa Boas case the description of

2205
01:56:58,950 --> 01:56:56,530
the the woman you know kind of enforced

2206
01:57:02,730 --> 01:56:58,960
sexual partner grunting like an animal

2207
01:57:04,230 --> 01:57:02,740
and turning the witness off I mean you'd

2208
01:57:06,990 --> 01:57:04,240
be hard-pressed to make that up as a

2209
01:57:11,220 --> 01:57:07,000
detail so I've always thought that that

2210
01:57:14,070 --> 01:57:11,230
particular detail you know lends some

2211
01:57:19,920 --> 01:57:14,080
sort of credence or extra legitimacy to

2212
01:57:22,260 --> 01:57:19,930
the to the witness's account but it's

2213
01:57:23,550 --> 01:57:22,270
it's too good to be true we got

2214
01:57:26,070 --> 01:57:23,560
something else too good to be true

2215
01:57:29,040 --> 01:57:26,080
you'll hear in a second David Bowie

2216
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Jerome Clark Jean and Chris you in do

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2309
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2310
02:01:51,950 --> 02:01:48,480
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2311
02:01:53,930 --> 02:01:51,960
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2312
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2314
02:02:04,250 --> 02:02:01,980
cast calm David I just want to ask you

2315
02:02:09,200 --> 02:02:04,260
then let's go into more detail it's real

2316
02:02:10,760 --> 02:02:09,210
down here he was incarcerated after

2317
02:02:14,689 --> 02:02:10,770
being apprehended but I thought he

2318
02:02:18,500 --> 02:02:14,699
turned himself in well that's another

2319
02:02:21,500 --> 02:02:18,510
detail that is Jerry remembers

2320
02:02:25,729 --> 02:02:21,510
differently than the way it's recorded

2321
02:02:29,410 --> 02:02:25,739
in the records it could be that he

2322
02:02:33,470 --> 02:02:29,420
really was intending to turn himself in

2323
02:02:37,550 --> 02:02:33,480
but was apprehended along the way and

2324
02:02:39,830 --> 02:02:37,560
that's I think that's quite possible but

2325
02:02:47,510 --> 02:02:39,840
the records show that he was apprehended

2326
02:02:53,270 --> 02:02:47,520
in fact by police in wasn't cascade or

2327
02:02:56,870 --> 02:02:53,280
McCall but in any case he had to had to

2328
02:03:00,280 --> 02:02:56,880
undergo a court-martial and that's and

2329
02:03:04,040 --> 02:03:00,290
that led to him being sentenced to the

2330
02:03:08,600 --> 02:03:04,050
u.s. disciplinary barracks in Fort

2331
02:03:11,330 --> 02:03:08,610
Leavenworth donors it's confusing I was

2332
02:03:14,870 --> 02:03:11,340
confused because there's three things at

2333
02:03:17,810 --> 02:03:14,880
Leavenworth that are three important

2334
02:03:21,860 --> 02:03:17,820
installations there's there's an army

2335
02:03:24,970 --> 02:03:21,870
fort Fort Worth there's a US

2336
02:03:27,650 --> 02:03:24,980
Penitentiary at Fort Leavenworth and

2337
02:03:30,140 --> 02:03:27,660
then there is what they call the u.s.

2338
02:03:33,530 --> 02:03:30,150
disciplinary barracks which is the

2339
02:03:36,560 --> 02:03:33,540
military's prison if you're in the

2340
02:03:38,720 --> 02:03:36,570
military and you it's it's where they

2341
02:03:41,240 --> 02:03:38,730
send their most serious offenders in the

2342
02:03:44,150 --> 02:03:41,250
military yeah I think it's maximum

2343
02:03:46,580 --> 02:03:44,160
security isn't it well I at least it

2344
02:03:48,410 --> 02:03:46,590
used to be I don't know if it's still I

2345
02:03:49,660 --> 02:03:48,420
don't know what the current status is I

2346
02:03:52,580 --> 02:03:49,670
can't remember

2347
02:03:54,320 --> 02:03:52,590
all right so how long did he spend in

2348
02:03:57,290 --> 02:03:54,330
this facility

2349
02:04:00,470 --> 02:03:57,300
he's Spence he was sentenced to a year

2350
02:04:04,250 --> 02:04:00,480
but apparently somewhere along the line

2351
02:04:08,480 --> 02:04:04,260
he got clemency because it ended up

2352
02:04:12,280 --> 02:04:08,490
being seven months he was in he was

2353
02:04:15,370 --> 02:04:12,290
confined for a few months before his

2354
02:04:21,010 --> 02:04:15,380
court-martial so it ended up being about

2355
02:04:26,980 --> 02:04:21,020
a total of about nine or ten months in

2356
02:04:33,650 --> 02:04:26,990
confinement at 312 days I think it was

2357
02:04:38,270 --> 02:04:33,660
what was his excuse for 400 for his

2358
02:04:42,980 --> 02:04:38,280
desertion yes what he told them what

2359
02:04:49,000 --> 02:04:42,990
what his defense said was that he

2360
02:04:51,350 --> 02:04:49,010
believed that if he could return to the

2361
02:04:54,160 --> 02:04:51,360
basically his backyard the wilderness

2362
02:04:58,510 --> 02:04:54,170
where he grew up in central Idaho that

2363
02:05:00,860 --> 02:04:58,520
he could heal himself of the

2364
02:05:07,610 --> 02:05:00,870
difficulties he was having with his mind

2365
02:05:08,510 --> 02:05:07,620
with his functioning and and he claims

2366
02:05:10,130 --> 02:05:08,520
that it worked

2367
02:05:11,720 --> 02:05:10,140
he claims that a couple months in the

2368
02:05:14,650 --> 02:05:11,730
wilderness because it was two-and-a-half

2369
02:05:26,870 --> 02:05:22,910
healed him and the and the defense

2370
02:05:30,410 --> 02:05:26,880
counsel said that Jerry wanted to remain

2371
02:05:32,780 --> 02:05:30,420
in the service and that he thought that

2372
02:05:34,790 --> 02:05:32,790
that should count for something here he

2373
02:05:37,880 --> 02:05:34,800
was obviously not someone trying to get

2374
02:05:46,490 --> 02:05:37,890
out of the military he really wanted to

2375
02:05:50,660 --> 02:05:46,500
complete his his enlistment and which he

2376
02:05:51,339 --> 02:05:50,670
which they didn't allow him to do him so

2377
02:05:54,330 --> 02:05:51,349
he was

2378
02:05:56,530 --> 02:05:54,340
you didn't fit the category of someone

2379
02:06:01,870 --> 02:05:56,540
quote-unquote bucking for a discharge

2380
02:06:05,680 --> 02:06:01,880
which he was accused of essentially well

2381
02:06:10,720 --> 02:06:05,690
at least they let him get back to work

2382
02:06:14,459 --> 02:06:10,730
in a lesser level oh you mean after the

2383
02:06:18,479 --> 02:06:14,469
court after the oh yes prison yeah oh

2384
02:06:21,069 --> 02:06:18,489
well well of course he started from

2385
02:06:24,010 --> 02:06:21,079
basically no rank they busted him all

2386
02:06:26,229 --> 02:06:24,020
the way down and then from that he

2387
02:06:29,439 --> 02:06:26,239
climbed up to he was Sergeant when he

2388
02:06:31,479 --> 02:06:29,449
left the army so he did pretty well when

2389
02:06:36,399 --> 02:06:31,489
he went back in and when he got out of

2390
02:06:42,459 --> 02:06:36,409
the prison okay and in fact he had not

2391
02:06:44,740 --> 02:06:42,469
only that but he weren't in a I guess he

2392
02:06:47,560 --> 02:06:44,750
would call it

2393
02:06:52,750 --> 02:06:47,570
I don't he'd call it undercover exactly

2394
02:06:57,490 --> 02:06:52,760
but he was he weren't in Austria in an

2395
02:07:02,350 --> 02:06:57,500
unofficial advisory capacity um he was

2396
02:07:06,540 --> 02:07:02,360
supposedly after he was in Germany for a

2397
02:07:09,640 --> 02:07:06,550
few years they sent him down to work

2398
02:07:13,050 --> 02:07:09,650
with the Austrian army all right I'm

2399
02:07:17,379 --> 02:07:13,060
doing trying to sort this out here guy

2400
02:07:20,050 --> 02:07:17,389
after his possible abduction yeah some

2401
02:07:24,339 --> 02:07:20,060
kind of breakdown it sounds like he goes

2402
02:07:26,770 --> 02:07:24,349
AWOL he's arrested possibly before he's

2403
02:07:29,709 --> 02:07:26,780
about to turn himself it he spends

2404
02:07:32,919 --> 02:07:29,719
months in prison he's demoted he's

2405
02:07:35,050 --> 02:07:32,929
allowed to serve in the military which

2406
02:07:37,629 --> 02:07:35,060
strikes me as a lenient sentence I would

2407
02:07:38,410 --> 02:07:37,639
think if you're convicted in a

2408
02:07:41,530 --> 02:07:38,420
court-martial

2409
02:07:44,649 --> 02:07:41,540
you're thrown out a dishonorable

2410
02:07:46,870 --> 02:07:44,659
discharge so we've got a pretty good

2411
02:07:49,990 --> 02:07:46,880
deal here now they're giving them all

2412
02:07:53,740 --> 02:07:50,000
these privileges yeah I think that's a

2413
02:07:57,910 --> 02:07:53,750
little interesting I I'm certainly no

2414
02:08:02,140 --> 02:07:57,920
expert on standard procedure in in

2415
02:08:05,110 --> 02:08:02,150
military criminal cases but I did think

2416
02:08:10,900 --> 02:08:05,120
that was a little odd

2417
02:08:13,180 --> 02:08:10,910
and that not only that they put him in

2418
02:08:16,000 --> 02:08:13,190
him eventually in a fairly sensitive

2419
02:08:18,820 --> 02:08:16,010
position I mean he he had to pose as a

2420
02:08:21,820 --> 02:08:18,830
tourist while he was working for the

2421
02:08:24,550 --> 02:08:21,830
Army in Austria this is stuff you were

2422
02:08:26,830 --> 02:08:24,560
able to verify independently it does

2423
02:08:32,260 --> 02:08:26,840
show the stationed in Germany now the

2424
02:08:34,090 --> 02:08:32,270
Austrian part I I mean that doesn't show

2425
02:08:36,520 --> 02:08:34,100
up in the records but if what Jerry says

2426
02:08:37,960 --> 02:08:36,530
is true then it probably students show

2427
02:08:41,020 --> 02:08:37,970
up in the records it was supposed to be

2428
02:08:43,510 --> 02:08:41,030
all off the books because there was not

2429
02:08:45,430 --> 02:08:43,520
supposed to be a paper trail of what he

2430
02:08:47,710 --> 02:08:45,440
was doing down there now how much of

2431
02:08:50,650 --> 02:08:47,720
this future history after the

2432
02:08:52,390 --> 02:08:50,660
imprisonment after he gets out how much

2433
02:08:58,570 --> 02:08:52,400
of that is documented and how much of

2434
02:09:02,590 --> 02:08:58,580
that is what Jerry says well he the the

2435
02:09:04,270 --> 02:09:02,600
record shows that he was shipped to

2436
02:09:11,190 --> 02:09:04,280
Germany shortly after he was released

2437
02:09:13,510 --> 02:09:11,200
from prison completed this term in 1966

2438
02:09:22,650 --> 02:09:13,520
received an honorable discharge as a

2439
02:09:25,690 --> 02:09:22,660
sergeant now he I don't I don't have

2440
02:09:27,850 --> 02:09:25,700
independent verification of his work at

2441
02:09:30,250 --> 02:09:27,860
Kodak but he did work it mount

2442
02:09:34,260 --> 02:09:30,260
Mystique's he worked out of another

2443
02:09:37,390 --> 02:09:34,270
microfilm company after he retired

2444
02:09:39,790 --> 02:09:37,400
now this neighbors may be the most

2445
02:09:41,970 --> 02:09:39,800
interesting story of all we have

2446
02:09:46,420 --> 02:09:41,980
somebody here who under normal

2447
02:09:49,480 --> 02:09:46,430
circumstances would be discredited he's

2448
02:09:52,770 --> 02:09:49,490
arrested he's charged with a crime he's

2449
02:09:56,550 --> 02:09:52,780
convicted he serves his sentence

2450
02:09:59,080 --> 02:09:56,560
evidently he's fully rehabilitated and

2451
02:10:02,310 --> 02:09:59,090
when you say off the books it implies

2452
02:10:06,010 --> 02:10:02,320
some kind of intelligence operation hmm

2453
02:10:09,520 --> 02:10:06,020
might make for a good spy movie what do

2454
02:10:11,560 --> 02:10:09,530
you think neighbors we got more to come

2455
02:10:14,020 --> 02:10:11,570
with David Bowie the book is called no

2456
02:10:17,180 --> 02:10:14,030
return the Jerome Clark and Jean and

2457
02:10:22,820 --> 02:10:17,190
Chris you're in libera cast

2458
02:10:32,190 --> 02:10:28,290
[Music]

2459
02:10:36,630 --> 02:10:32,200
thank you for listening to GCN

2460
02:10:38,850 --> 02:10:36,640
be sure to visit GCN live.com today if

2461
02:10:41,070 --> 02:10:38,860
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sinks in you now have a huge

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cryptocurrency opportunity at below

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market price at a guaranteed ten cents

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in the open market easily converted to

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coin is the only cryptocurrency offering

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were incredibly delicious water now and

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2487
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not a matter of if it's a matter of when

2488
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and when your identity is hacked it's a

2489
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nightmare

2490
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hi everyone paul with liberty ID did you

2491
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know that children are 52 times more

2492
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likely to suffer from identity theft

2493
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than adults is your family prepared

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identity monitoring will not fix the

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2534
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2535
02:13:35,070 --> 02:13:32,830
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2536
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seven forty eight hundred six one zero

2537
02:13:40,920 --> 02:13:38,830
seventy seven forty heart disease is on

2538
02:13:42,930 --> 02:13:40,930
the rise clogged arteries high blood

2539
02:13:45,090 --> 02:13:42,940
pressure and high cholesterol levels may

2540
02:13:47,520 --> 02:13:45,100
not be fully detected by you but the

2541
02:13:49,560 --> 02:13:47,530
symptoms are there loss of energy blood

2542
02:13:52,080 --> 02:13:49,570
sugar spikes and drops poor circulation

2543
02:13:53,370 --> 02:13:52,090
and irregular heartbeat are just a few

2544
02:13:54,689 --> 02:13:53,380
of these that can alert you that

2545
02:13:56,760 --> 02:13:54,699
something is wrong

2546
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hear how heart and body extract is

2547
02:14:01,170 --> 02:13:58,750
making a difference in thousands of

2548
02:14:03,420 --> 02:14:01,180
people's lives across America my blood

2549
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pressure has normalized my diabetes has

2550
02:14:07,350 --> 02:14:05,469
totally improved if you want to tell me

2551
02:14:08,880 --> 02:14:07,360
now how much healthier I look and I'm

2552
02:14:10,590 --> 02:14:08,890
sure everyone how much healthier I feel

2553
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I recommend heartened by the extracts

2554
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everyone everybody over 40 and the North

2555
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American continent should be using this

2556
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product as a preventative to keep their

2557
02:14:22,560 --> 02:14:19,630
cardiovascular system health order your

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02:14:24,660 --> 02:14:22,570
two months supply today by calling 8 to

2559
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2560
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six six two nine five five three zero

2561
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five or order online HP extract calm

2562
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heart and body extract eight six six two

2563
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nine five five three zero five or HP

2564
02:14:51,530 --> 02:14:48,170
this is actually you're listening to the

2565
02:15:02,590 --> 02:14:51,540
podcast the gold standard of paranormal

2566
02:15:08,090 --> 02:15:04,880
just wanna let you know we have a second

2567
02:15:09,950 --> 02:15:08,100
radio show after the power cast it's

2568
02:15:12,560 --> 02:15:09,960
only available if you subscribe to the

2569
02:15:15,620 --> 02:15:12,570
power cast plus at plus dot the parent

2570
02:15:18,320 --> 02:15:15,630
cast com that's PL us dr. power cast

2571
02:15:21,140 --> 02:15:18,330
calm after the power cast has special

2572
02:15:23,330 --> 02:15:21,150
interviews chitchat you never know

2573
02:15:24,740 --> 02:15:23,340
what's gonna happen next we also give

2574
02:15:25,850 --> 02:15:24,750
you a commercial free version of this

2575
02:15:29,930 --> 02:15:25,860
show check it out

2576
02:15:30,260 --> 02:15:29,940
+ dot the power cast com target David

2577
02:15:33,850 --> 02:15:30,270
Bowie

2578
02:15:36,860 --> 02:15:33,860
Jerome Clarke gene and Chris Jerry Clark

2579
02:15:39,440 --> 02:15:36,870
does this strike you as strange as much

2580
02:15:43,190 --> 02:15:39,450
as it strikes me as strange and somebody

2581
02:15:50,660 --> 02:15:43,200
is convicted of going AWOL and he still

2582
02:15:56,270 --> 02:15:50,670
gets this chance at rehabilitation study

2583
02:16:00,170 --> 02:15:56,280
the history of many interests and you

2584
02:16:01,520 --> 02:16:00,180
find guys for example or spine there are

2585
02:16:04,640 --> 02:16:01,530
all kinds of ways

2586
02:16:07,400 --> 02:16:04,650
in retrospect these guys did something

2587
02:16:09,590 --> 02:16:07,410
that should have caused alarm bells to

2588
02:16:12,230 --> 02:16:09,600
ring and they they got another chance

2589
02:16:14,810 --> 02:16:12,240
and they went on and and it all ended

2590
02:16:18,230 --> 02:16:14,820
badly when finally they figured out that

2591
02:16:20,690 --> 02:16:18,240
this guy was a foreign agent and it's

2592
02:16:23,030 --> 02:16:20,700
stolen all kinds of secrets that sort of

2593
02:16:23,630 --> 02:16:23,040
thing happens all the time now obviously

2594
02:16:25,730 --> 02:16:23,640
Jerry

2595
02:16:28,300 --> 02:16:25,740
Erwin was a completely innocent guy

2596
02:16:32,589 --> 02:16:28,310
completely you know patriotic

2597
02:16:36,320 --> 02:16:32,599
hard-working soldier and but no it's not

2598
02:16:38,540 --> 02:16:36,330
at all odd to me that they would think

2599
02:16:40,940 --> 02:16:38,550
finally well this was some kind of

2600
02:16:44,240 --> 02:16:40,950
psychological episode and we see no

2601
02:16:47,089 --> 02:16:44,250
evidence that it's a recurring one and

2602
02:16:49,040 --> 02:16:47,099
he's doing a good job and unless we have

2603
02:16:52,220 --> 02:16:49,050
some really strong reason to conclude

2604
02:16:54,500 --> 02:16:52,230
otherwise we're just going to let him

2605
02:16:57,379 --> 02:16:54,510
keep doing his job because he seems to

2606
02:17:00,709 --> 02:16:57,389
be an okay guy yeah I don't think find

2607
02:17:03,580 --> 02:17:00,719
that all that unusual I think that it's

2608
02:17:06,950 --> 02:17:03,590
only in in movies and spy novels that

2609
02:17:10,290 --> 02:17:06,960
people are scrutinized quite that

2610
02:17:13,469 --> 02:17:10,300
closely and not given Lee

2611
02:17:17,910 --> 02:17:13,479
to make mistakes or to do something that

2612
02:17:22,530 --> 02:17:17,920
in retrospect seems suspicious or a tell

2613
02:17:25,559 --> 02:17:22,540
but no this is why should really really

2614
02:17:27,000 --> 02:17:25,569
just be grateful he got the chance to

2615
02:17:30,690 --> 02:17:27,010
rehabilitate himself

2616
02:17:36,389 --> 02:17:30,700
what does Jerry Erwin think about what

2617
02:17:41,400 --> 02:17:36,399
happened to him during that year well he

2618
02:17:44,459 --> 02:17:41,410
basically remembers the initial event he

2619
02:17:47,730 --> 02:17:44,469
remembers what happened shortly after

2620
02:17:49,860 --> 02:17:47,740
that and then the thing then it's like

2621
02:17:53,429 --> 02:17:49,870
it's all over that was that's the whole

2622
02:17:55,530 --> 02:17:53,439
story and there's not much to it and so

2623
02:17:58,169 --> 02:17:55,540
why are we talking about this that's

2624
02:18:05,429 --> 02:17:58,179
that was kind of his default attitude

2625
02:18:08,370 --> 02:18:05,439
about the about this story and he's he

2626
02:18:10,919 --> 02:18:08,380
was willing to talk about whatever he

2627
02:18:12,509 --> 02:18:10,929
could remember but he really didn't

2628
02:18:19,349 --> 02:18:12,519
think it was an important story at all

2629
02:18:21,240 --> 02:18:19,359
and which to me is kind of it lends more

2630
02:18:24,690 --> 02:18:21,250
credence because he's certainly not

2631
02:18:26,030 --> 02:18:24,700
someone making making claims to try to

2632
02:18:30,000 --> 02:18:26,040
get attention

2633
02:18:34,080 --> 02:18:30,010
he's just the opposite he sort of

2634
02:18:41,669 --> 02:18:34,090
reluctantly I mean he was friendly he

2635
02:18:44,370 --> 02:18:41,679
was very cooperative amiable and yet he

2636
02:18:51,020 --> 02:18:44,380
he really didn't think it was a story

2637
02:18:57,000 --> 02:18:51,030
worth telling so to answer your question

2638
02:19:00,990 --> 02:18:57,010
he's well in the and that's because I

2639
02:19:02,759 --> 02:19:01,000
think to a degree he remembers very

2640
02:19:03,900 --> 02:19:02,769
little about that year and that's very

2641
02:19:08,280 --> 02:19:03,910
intriguing to me

2642
02:19:10,889 --> 02:19:08,290
oh it makes sense that he thinks there's

2643
02:19:12,900 --> 02:19:10,899
nothing to talk about because he just

2644
02:19:16,410 --> 02:19:12,910
doesn't even remember most of those

2645
02:19:18,839 --> 02:19:16,420
events which I which I started to get a

2646
02:19:20,820 --> 02:19:18,849
clue about on the very first during the

2647
02:19:24,030 --> 02:19:20,830
FIR very first interview we had on the

2648
02:19:26,640 --> 02:19:24,040
phone I was reading to him

2649
02:19:31,200 --> 02:19:26,650
tails that had been reported by coral

2650
02:19:36,990 --> 02:19:31,210
Lorenzen and later summarized by Jacques

2651
02:19:40,049 --> 02:19:37,000
Vallee and he was basically reacting by

2652
02:19:42,780 --> 02:19:40,059
saying well I think these authors have

2653
02:19:47,580 --> 02:19:42,790
taken liberties some of that really just

2654
02:19:51,900 --> 02:19:47,590
isn't true and I later started piecing

2655
02:19:55,350 --> 02:19:51,910
it together and realizing that when I

2656
02:19:58,440 --> 02:19:55,360
got more documentation I could and I

2657
02:20:03,450 --> 02:19:58,450
found out that those facts weren't were

2658
02:20:07,070 --> 02:20:03,460
true were documented it seemed to be

2659
02:20:14,160 --> 02:20:07,080
that if he didn't remember something

2660
02:20:20,430 --> 02:20:14,170
then his kind of way of compensating or

2661
02:20:21,930 --> 02:20:20,440
or dealing with it was to just say it

2662
02:20:26,550 --> 02:20:21,940
didn't happen it didn't if he didn't

2663
02:20:29,310 --> 02:20:26,560
remember it it didn't happen I think

2664
02:20:33,990 --> 02:20:29,320
that your book David is it's interesting

2665
02:20:37,740 --> 02:20:34,000
the read as book about you know a memory

2666
02:20:41,370 --> 02:20:37,750
anomaly is anything it's just like this

2667
02:20:44,250 --> 02:20:41,380
guy just I think that in your book he

2668
02:20:48,750 --> 02:20:44,260
uses finality of islands and you know in

2669
02:20:51,600 --> 02:20:48,760
a lake and that there are just most of

2670
02:20:55,040 --> 02:20:51,610
this be the events are under the surface

2671
02:20:57,780 --> 02:20:55,050
and these little islands pop up and

2672
02:21:00,450 --> 02:20:57,790
those are the things that he remembers

2673
02:21:03,350 --> 02:21:00,460
but the things he doesn't remember are

2674
02:21:12,270 --> 02:21:03,360
probably greater and far more profound

2675
02:21:18,810 --> 02:21:12,280
yeah that's what it seems like I think

2676
02:21:23,520 --> 02:21:18,820
that it's possibly a defense it's a way

2677
02:21:29,280 --> 02:21:23,530
of protecting himself and I from that

2678
02:21:32,630 --> 02:21:29,290
standpoint it certainly it makes you

2679
02:21:35,400 --> 02:21:32,640
know it's it makes a lot of sense to me

2680
02:21:37,440 --> 02:21:35,410
well it's a very strange story and

2681
02:21:39,410 --> 02:21:37,450
unfortunately it's one that

2682
02:21:43,110 --> 02:21:39,420
you know the truth will never be

2683
02:21:45,390 --> 02:21:43,120
available to us but it is a fascinating

2684
02:21:49,170 --> 02:21:45,400
story and you tell it well in your book

2685
02:21:53,790 --> 02:21:49,180
which I recommend by the way oh thank

2686
02:21:57,480 --> 02:21:53,800
you continuing Gigi

2687
02:22:00,240 --> 02:21:57,490
I was gonna say something but then where

2688
02:22:02,820 --> 02:22:00,250
we go alright we're kind of getting to

2689
02:22:06,929 --> 02:22:02,830
the end point here where I wanted to

2690
02:22:09,000 --> 02:22:06,939
kind of get ways of summing this up now

2691
02:22:11,820 --> 02:22:09,010
other than the possibility that Jerry

2692
02:22:16,250 --> 02:22:11,830
Erwin just had some kind of mental issue

2693
02:22:19,800 --> 02:22:16,260
in that year which I suppose as possible

2694
02:22:27,750 --> 02:22:19,810
other than that what's your impression

2695
02:22:35,280 --> 02:22:27,760
David well my impression is that he saw

2696
02:22:43,140 --> 02:22:35,290
a genuine unknown I have no idea what

2697
02:22:48,179 --> 02:22:43,150
that what that would have been but he he

2698
02:22:50,219 --> 02:22:48,189
was someone that was probably better

2699
02:22:54,030 --> 02:22:50,229
than the average person at identifying

2700
02:22:56,280 --> 02:22:54,040
objects in the sky having been an Nike

2701
02:23:02,280 --> 02:22:56,290
Nike missile technician having been

2702
02:23:05,820 --> 02:23:02,290
stationed in Alaska where he had

2703
02:23:12,450 --> 02:23:05,830
observed secret prototypes of the u2

2704
02:23:14,610 --> 02:23:12,460
flying overhead and he grew up in the

2705
02:23:16,500 --> 02:23:14,620
wilderness where you would have been

2706
02:23:20,820 --> 02:23:16,510
pretty familiar with the night sky I

2707
02:23:22,080 --> 02:23:20,830
would take it because that's a that's an

2708
02:23:25,469 --> 02:23:22,090
interesting part of the book that we

2709
02:23:29,250 --> 02:23:25,479
haven't really touched on then he grew

2710
02:23:32,010 --> 02:23:29,260
up in the heart of the largest what is

2711
02:23:36,060 --> 02:23:32,020
now the largest roadless area in the

2712
02:23:42,330 --> 02:23:36,070
lower 48 states in central Idaho you

2713
02:23:43,860 --> 02:23:42,340
know as a part of a pioneer family back

2714
02:23:46,770 --> 02:23:43,870
in 30s

2715
02:23:51,360 --> 02:23:46,780
and that's where he went back to when he

2716
02:23:54,929 --> 02:23:51,370
was struggling so much he went back

2717
02:23:58,490 --> 02:23:54,939
there to get away from the army and to

2718
02:24:04,410 --> 02:23:58,500
try to heal himself so I think he

2719
02:24:07,349 --> 02:24:04,420
probably had a pretty good sense of what

2720
02:24:09,210 --> 02:24:07,359
an aircraft would look like and he was

2721
02:24:12,360 --> 02:24:09,220
not at all convinced that what he saw

2722
02:24:14,280 --> 02:24:12,370
was an aircraft let's continue in our

2723
02:24:17,550 --> 02:24:14,290
final segment with David Bowie the book

2724
02:24:28,190 --> 02:24:17,560
is called no return with Ron Clark and

2725
02:24:36,730 --> 02:24:32,080
thank you for listening to GCN

2726
02:24:38,950 --> 02:24:36,740
be sure to visit GCN live.com today as

2727
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you know neighbors web-hosting can be

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pretty cheap but not all hosting is the

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same dream host wins best of awards year

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about what dream host has to offer go to

2735
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2736
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that's tech nikon comm slash host first

2737
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game attack of the rockets and it was a

2738
02:25:12,370 --> 02:25:10,430
critically acclaimed success and now

2739
02:25:14,500 --> 02:25:12,380
there is the coming of the protectors a

2740
02:25:16,780 --> 02:25:14,510
former military intelligence man is

2741
02:25:18,610 --> 02:25:16,790
contacted by a space woman in a dream a

2742
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dream that turns out to be a nightmare

2743
02:25:22,750 --> 02:25:21,020
because evil forces on our distant

2744
02:25:25,389 --> 02:25:22,760
planet are planning to conquer the earth

2745
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this is gripping science fiction of the

2746
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classic kind attack of the rock ODEs and

2747
02:25:33,070 --> 02:25:30,109
the coming of the protectors find out

2748
02:25:37,599 --> 02:25:33,080
more at rockets calm that's Rockets are

2749
02:25:39,580 --> 02:25:37,609
Ock oids calm this is Dan pillar do you

2750
02:25:41,530 --> 02:25:39,590
owe the IRS money you can't pay our tax

2751
02:25:43,719 --> 02:25:41,540
debts crippling you I've defended people

2752
02:25:45,520 --> 02:25:43,729
from the IRS for over thirty years I've

2753
02:25:47,500 --> 02:25:45,530
helped thousands and I can help you too

2754
02:25:49,210 --> 02:25:47,510
I wrote the book on IRS settlement and

2755
02:25:52,660 --> 02:25:49,220
I'm telling you there's no such thing as

2756
02:25:54,639 --> 02:25:52,670
a hopeless case call 834 no tax to

2757
02:25:56,500 --> 02:25:54,649
finally get free of IRS debt with the

2758
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IRS as new programs there's never been a

2759
02:26:01,150 --> 02:25:58,370
better time to solve your problem call

2760
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834 no tax that's eight hundred three

2761
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four no tax or my website Dan pillow

2762
02:26:10,120 --> 02:26:07,880
calm welcome aboard

2763
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your new science-fiction adventure is

2764
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2766
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2767
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2768
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2769
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2770
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series available from Barnes and

2771
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or Amazon as paperback or ebooks Galaxy

2772
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Quest ebooks.com where the adventure

2773
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2774
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2775
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2776
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2777
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2778
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are compact and models start from just

2779
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2780
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2781
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2782
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2783
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2784
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2785
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tool feel the thrill only at slim Oh

2786
02:27:11,150 --> 02:27:09,510
calm hello I'm Mike Mendell the inventor

2787
02:27:13,160 --> 02:27:11,160
of my pillow and like all of you out

2788
02:27:14,990 --> 02:27:13,170
there I have problem sleeping pillows

2789
02:27:16,700 --> 02:27:15,000
would go flat I would flip flop all

2790
02:27:18,410 --> 02:27:16,710
night long I would wake up with a sore

2791
02:27:20,030 --> 02:27:18,420
neck maybe a headache or feel like I

2792
02:27:22,160 --> 02:27:20,040
needed a nap even though I slept eight

2793
02:27:23,780 --> 02:27:22,170
hours when I invented my pillow I wanted

2794
02:27:26,000 --> 02:27:23,790
it to where you can move the patented

2795
02:27:27,830 --> 02:27:26,010
fill to give you the exact support you

2796
02:27:29,870 --> 02:27:27,840
need as an individual regardless of

2797
02:27:31,820 --> 02:27:29,880
sleep position my pillow will get you

2798
02:27:33,591 --> 02:27:31,830
into that deep REM sleep faster and you

2799
02:27:35,330 --> 02:27:33,601
will stay there longer it's not about

2800
02:27:37,341 --> 02:27:35,340
how much time we spend in bed it's about

2801
02:27:39,320 --> 02:27:37,351
how much of that quality sleep we get I

2802
02:27:40,970 --> 02:27:39,330
do all of my own manufacturing right

2803
02:27:42,950 --> 02:27:40,980
here in the United States I have a 10

2804
02:27:44,750 --> 02:27:42,960
year warranty you can wash and dry my

2805
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pillow and I give you a 60 day money

2806
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back guarantee so you have nothing to

2807
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lose and here's my best offer ever you

2808
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can buy one of my pillows and get one

2809
02:28:29,480 --> 02:27:53,641
absolutely free go to my pillow comm or

2810
02:28:31,820 --> 02:28:29,490
call 818-384-6869 discount programs

2811
02:28:34,820 --> 02:28:31,830
available for dental vision and pharmacy

2812
02:28:43,660 --> 02:28:34,830
go to Liberty on call org that Liberty

2813
02:28:49,310 --> 02:28:46,430
hi it's Greg Cameron from presidential

2814
02:28:52,220 --> 02:28:49,320
UFO calm you're listening to the para

2815
02:28:59,720 --> 02:28:52,230
cast the gold standard of paranormal

2816
02:29:01,610 --> 02:28:59,730
radial alright looking at the book

2817
02:29:04,160 --> 02:29:01,620
listening to you David Bowie I am

2818
02:29:06,040 --> 02:29:04,170
stumped too as to what happened to this

2819
02:29:08,930 --> 02:29:06,050
guy really

2820
02:29:11,720 --> 02:29:08,940
obviously it has earmarks of a UFO

2821
02:29:13,091 --> 02:29:11,730
abduction doesn't seem to have earmarks

2822
02:29:15,400 --> 02:29:13,101
of anything involving government

2823
02:29:18,350 --> 02:29:15,410
experimentation because then you wonder

2824
02:29:20,960 --> 02:29:18,360
after he suffers all these symptoms why

2825
02:29:23,051 --> 02:29:20,970
would they do what you expect the

2826
02:29:26,660 --> 02:29:23,061
military to do which is to arrest him

2827
02:29:29,360 --> 02:29:26,670
incarcerate him and charge him so on the

2828
02:29:35,890 --> 02:29:29,370
surface it sounds like it's some kind of

2829
02:29:43,070 --> 02:29:38,870
either some bizarre mental breakdown

2830
02:29:45,970 --> 02:29:43,080
which is certainly possible or high

2831
02:29:50,080 --> 02:29:45,980
strangeness UFO encounter involving

2832
02:29:53,450 --> 02:29:50,090
amnesia and missing time and mysterious

2833
02:29:55,700 --> 02:29:53,460
dislocations of things but this was

2834
02:29:58,280 --> 02:29:55,710
something that nobody in the military

2835
02:30:02,091 --> 02:29:58,290
was prepared to deal with even imagined

2836
02:30:04,091 --> 02:30:02,101
was possible and only the Lorenzen had

2837
02:30:08,000 --> 02:30:04,101
some inkling of what might have happened

2838
02:30:09,770 --> 02:30:08,010
but we'll never know but I have to say

2839
02:30:17,080 --> 02:30:09,780
that David really provides a lot of

2840
02:30:20,810 --> 02:30:19,160
towards the end of his life when you

2841
02:30:22,750 --> 02:30:20,820
first got to talk to him and before

2842
02:30:25,820 --> 02:30:22,760
obviously he had his current illness

2843
02:30:29,690 --> 02:30:25,830
where does he stand looking back at this

2844
02:30:33,051 --> 02:30:29,700
event he's doesn't really think there's

2845
02:30:37,540 --> 02:30:33,061
much to it I guess that's just the way

2846
02:30:40,160 --> 02:30:37,550
that he deals with it it's it was just a

2847
02:30:44,060 --> 02:30:40,170
strange thing that happened and then and

2848
02:30:46,190 --> 02:30:44,070
then he moved on with his life and when

2849
02:30:49,190 --> 02:30:46,200
apart that well you know we talked about

2850
02:30:51,051 --> 02:30:49,200
the Betty and Barney Hill comparison I

2851
02:30:53,631 --> 02:30:51,061
guess and I spent the last

2852
02:30:57,711 --> 02:30:53,641
chapter pointing out the parallels

2853
02:31:00,440 --> 02:30:57,721
between those cases because I think

2854
02:31:03,081 --> 02:31:00,450
there there are some startling

2855
02:31:06,320 --> 02:31:03,091
similarities if you really if you really

2856
02:31:08,451 --> 02:31:06,330
look at the details so I guess what

2857
02:31:11,871 --> 02:31:08,461
we're where I come down at the end is

2858
02:31:15,621 --> 02:31:11,881
well if these two examples of the same

2859
02:31:18,350 --> 02:31:15,631
phenomenon and if they are what is that

2860
02:31:19,970 --> 02:31:18,360
phenomenon does it have something to do

2861
02:31:23,570 --> 02:31:19,980
with the government or or is it

2862
02:31:25,610 --> 02:31:23,580
something to do with some some

2863
02:31:28,520 --> 02:31:25,620
intelligence that we still haven't

2864
02:31:32,091 --> 02:31:28,530
really come to grips with other than our

2865
02:31:35,091 --> 02:31:32,101
non-human intelligence that is I think

2866
02:31:38,871 --> 02:31:35,101
these things have a long history and

2867
02:31:42,430 --> 02:31:38,881
they occur under different guises but

2868
02:31:46,970 --> 02:31:42,440
they all amount to narratives

2869
02:31:50,810 --> 02:31:46,980
otherworldly kidnappings and dealings

2870
02:31:54,381 --> 02:31:50,820
with things that are very difficult to

2871
02:31:56,180 --> 02:31:54,391
define and much less yet anybody else to

2872
02:32:00,531 --> 02:31:56,190
believe but these things that have in

2873
02:32:02,591 --> 02:32:00,541
human beings forever and I think that if

2874
02:32:06,020 --> 02:32:02,601
I had to put money on it I bet that

2875
02:32:09,081 --> 02:32:06,030
Terri Irwin had one of those experiences

2876
02:32:11,951 --> 02:32:09,091
that so far beyond current knowledge

2877
02:32:13,841 --> 02:32:11,961
that we probably can't even talk about

2878
02:32:16,881 --> 02:32:13,851
intelligently because we lack the

2879
02:32:18,680 --> 02:32:16,891
vocabulary for it but I it from

2880
02:32:22,430 --> 02:32:18,690
everything and I can infer for me a book

2881
02:32:26,270 --> 02:32:22,440
this was one of those experiences a very

2882
02:32:28,820 --> 02:32:26,280
strange story and that's where Jim

2883
02:32:34,911 --> 02:32:28,830
Lorenzen and his final analysis that's

2884
02:32:39,201 --> 02:32:34,921
where he came down he he was of the mind

2885
02:32:43,161 --> 02:32:39,211
that Gerry did encounter some sort of

2886
02:32:46,491 --> 02:32:43,171
unknown intelligence and that he thought

2887
02:32:49,041 --> 02:32:46,501
the doubt explained basically all of

2888
02:32:52,341 --> 02:32:49,051
Jerry's strange behavior in the eff in

2889
02:32:56,781 --> 02:32:52,351
the aftermath including his trip back to

2890
02:32:59,421 --> 02:32:56,791
Utah as some sort of a wait as part of a

2891
02:33:01,551 --> 02:32:59,431
system to block his memories there in

2892
02:33:04,610 --> 02:33:01,561
intention was to block his memories with

2893
02:33:07,360 --> 02:33:04,620
these what I think

2894
02:33:09,490 --> 02:33:07,370
Lorenzen called him memory blocks or

2895
02:33:13,430 --> 02:33:09,500
something of that sort

2896
02:33:16,850 --> 02:33:13,440
other than the experience before the

2897
02:33:19,490 --> 02:33:16,860
psychiatrist and the truth serum does he

2898
02:33:21,830 --> 02:33:19,500
recall at all that the military made any

2899
02:33:27,860 --> 02:33:21,840
further efforts to talk to him about

2900
02:33:30,620 --> 02:33:27,870
what happened the only thing he

2901
02:33:33,381 --> 02:33:30,630
remembers he remembers that he had the

2902
02:33:35,780 --> 02:33:33,391
sodium amytal interview and that's as

2903
02:33:38,751 --> 02:33:35,790
far as he remembered that's the only

2904
02:33:40,251 --> 02:33:38,761
time that he thinks it came up and he

2905
02:33:43,520 --> 02:33:40,261
doesn't even remember what happened

2906
02:33:46,551 --> 02:33:43,530
during that interview day but then again

2907
02:33:48,950 --> 02:33:46,561
he just remembers so very little and

2908
02:33:53,841 --> 02:33:48,960
that that's why the records were so

2909
02:33:56,091 --> 02:33:53,851
helpful because well between the

2910
02:33:59,270 --> 02:33:56,101
military records and what the Lorenz ins

2911
02:34:04,430 --> 02:33:59,280
had reported from their interviews with

2912
02:34:07,730 --> 02:34:04,440
him in fact that's the records were very

2913
02:34:10,400 --> 02:34:07,740
helpful also in corroborating most of

2914
02:34:14,450 --> 02:34:10,410
what the Lorenz ins had been told by

2915
02:34:18,051 --> 02:34:14,460
Jerry at that time still then that adds

2916
02:34:21,591 --> 02:34:18,061
more believability to the story what

2917
02:34:24,980 --> 02:34:21,601
about the records regarding his arrest

2918
02:34:28,251 --> 02:34:24,990
his court-martial and conviction what

2919
02:34:30,591 --> 02:34:28,261
was their conclusion oh well see by that

2920
02:34:34,461 --> 02:34:30,601
point the Lorenz ins have lost contact

2921
02:34:39,280 --> 02:34:34,471
with Jerry the last time they spoke with

2922
02:34:44,211 --> 02:34:39,290
him was a couple of months before he

2923
02:34:47,870 --> 02:34:44,221
deserted his post in I guess that was

2924
02:34:51,440 --> 02:34:47,880
August 1st of 1959 last time they talked

2925
02:34:54,290 --> 02:34:51,450
to him was I think the end of May and

2926
02:34:55,520 --> 02:34:54,300
they he just never got in touch with

2927
02:34:57,950 --> 02:34:55,530
them again and they couldn't get in

2928
02:35:00,830 --> 02:34:57,960
touch with him so they didn't know

2929
02:35:02,360 --> 02:35:00,840
anything that happened the reason they

2930
02:35:05,720 --> 02:35:02,370
knew he deserted was they kept in touch

2931
02:35:10,040 --> 02:35:05,730
with it that's his post at the Fort

2932
02:35:14,631 --> 02:35:10,050
Bliss with his where they call that the

2933
02:35:16,040 --> 02:35:14,641
orderly room the company headquarters as

2934
02:35:18,330 --> 02:35:16,050
well that's how they know that he

2935
02:35:21,660 --> 02:35:18,340
deserted that they never heard from

2936
02:35:27,410 --> 02:35:21,670
after that did you find any of the

2937
02:35:30,389 --> 02:35:27,420
military records about this about his

2938
02:35:33,080 --> 02:35:30,399
his court-martial in the circumstances

2939
02:35:37,040 --> 02:35:33,090
okay yes yes

2940
02:35:39,570 --> 02:35:37,050
well after we got the military records

2941
02:35:42,300 --> 02:35:39,580
we got a brief we have maybe a minute

2942
02:35:44,790 --> 02:35:42,310
left I hate to do that go ahead well we

2943
02:35:47,130 --> 02:35:44,800
after studying the military records it

2944
02:35:50,340 --> 02:35:47,140
actually took me a couple of months to

2945
02:35:52,500 --> 02:35:50,350
notice a little notation that turned out

2946
02:35:55,200 --> 02:35:52,510
to be a reference to the court-martial

2947
02:35:59,400 --> 02:35:55,210
and until that point I had no idea Gerry

2948
02:36:01,980 --> 02:35:59,410
didn't remember and so I then went

2949
02:36:03,860 --> 02:36:01,990
through the process of tracking down his

2950
02:36:07,050 --> 02:36:03,870
court-martial records which were housed

2951
02:36:08,820 --> 02:36:07,060
separately but in the same facility okay

2952
02:36:11,340 --> 02:36:08,830
that they conclude we've got to kind of

2953
02:36:13,560 --> 02:36:11,350
sum it up well interestingly they never

2954
02:36:16,230 --> 02:36:13,570
brought up the UFO in the in the

2955
02:36:18,349 --> 02:36:16,240
proceedings they just said he was hit he

2956
02:36:20,940 --> 02:36:18,359
only talked about his health problems

2957
02:36:23,400 --> 02:36:20,950
multiple blackouts and amnesia and

2958
02:36:26,510 --> 02:36:23,410
whatnot and that he thought he could

2959
02:36:29,700 --> 02:36:26,520
cure himself by deserting his post and

2960
02:36:32,250 --> 02:36:29,710
going back to the wilderness and that

2961
02:36:35,040 --> 02:36:32,260
was the argument they mean so it sounds

2962
02:36:39,570 --> 02:36:35,050
to me like they assumed he had some kind

2963
02:36:41,219 --> 02:36:39,580
of psychiatric problem that maybe was

2964
02:36:44,130 --> 02:36:41,229
ultimately resolved that's what sounds

2965
02:36:45,810 --> 02:36:44,140
like to me but how do we know do you

2966
02:36:47,490 --> 02:36:45,820
have a website or something David if

2967
02:36:47,940 --> 02:36:47,500
people want to get more information from

2968
02:36:51,150 --> 02:36:47,950
you

2969
02:36:54,030 --> 02:36:51,160
I don't currently have a website I think

2970
02:36:55,790 --> 02:36:54,040
there is more information a little more

2971
02:36:59,880 --> 02:36:55,800
information at the publishers website

2972
02:37:04,080 --> 02:36:59,890
anomalous books I will be setting up I

2973
02:37:05,610 --> 02:37:04,090
just don't have it yet though a website

2974
02:37:07,740 --> 02:37:05,620
or a Facebook page

2975
02:37:09,360 --> 02:37:07,750
so someone once again in touch with you

2976
02:37:12,300 --> 02:37:09,370
do they just contact your publisher then

2977
02:37:14,880 --> 02:37:12,310
yeah that would be fine okay that's

2978
02:37:17,370 --> 02:37:14,890
anomalous books by the way folks and

2979
02:37:19,770 --> 02:37:17,380
thank you if you want to check us out

2980
02:37:22,349 --> 02:37:19,780
we're on Twitter look for the power cast

2981
02:37:24,780 --> 02:37:22,359
on Twitter look for two official power

2982
02:37:26,460 --> 02:37:24,790
cast fan clubs on Facebook and we have

2983
02:37:28,560 --> 02:37:26,470
that second radio show we want you to

2984
02:37:30,990 --> 02:37:28,570
hear it's called after the power cast I

2985
02:37:32,130 --> 02:37:31,000
know one of our listeners says that all

2986
02:37:34,590 --> 02:37:32,140
we do is talk about

2987
02:37:36,899 --> 02:37:34,600
movies and pop culture on there we do

2988
02:37:40,800 --> 02:37:36,909
sometimes but it's not the only thing we

2989
02:37:42,630 --> 02:37:40,810
do we have special guests sometimes we

2990
02:37:44,250 --> 02:37:42,640
continued our discussion about teen

2991
02:37:47,370 --> 02:37:44,260
ufologist last week without in

2992
02:37:50,099 --> 02:37:47,380
Greenfield and with Jerome Clark didn't

2993
02:37:52,740 --> 02:37:50,109
ask him about pop movies either we make

2994
02:37:55,050 --> 02:37:52,750
it available if you subscribe to the

2995
02:37:58,170 --> 02:37:55,060
para cast plus you get a commercial free

2996
02:38:01,910 --> 02:37:58,180
version of this show go to plus dot the

2997
02:38:05,519 --> 02:38:01,920
para cast com PL us dot the power cast

2998
02:38:08,070 --> 02:38:05,529
not come Jerry Clark first of all thank

2999
02:38:10,979 --> 02:38:08,080
you so much for coming back and serving

3000
02:38:14,820 --> 02:38:10,989
as a member of our panel oh it's good to

3001
02:38:17,130 --> 02:38:14,830
have you Jerry thank it was fun it was

3002
02:38:19,979 --> 02:38:17,140
very interesting to me yeah this is a

3003
02:38:22,950 --> 02:38:19,989
great case and I'm really interested in

3004
02:38:26,340 --> 02:38:22,960
finding out more about cases of this

3005
02:38:28,590 --> 02:38:26,350
sort thanks a lot for being on and also

3006
02:38:29,849 --> 02:38:28,600
thank you mr. Gore too and Bob for being

3007
02:38:31,920 --> 02:38:29,859
on we really appreciate it

3008
02:38:34,649 --> 02:38:31,930
well thanks so much for having me I

3009
02:38:40,650 --> 02:38:34,659
really appreciate the opportunity and

3010
02:38:56,300 --> 02:38:50,280
[Music]

3011
02:38:59,329 --> 02:38:56,310
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3012
02:39:02,199 --> 02:38:59,339
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

3013
02:39:05,929 --> 02:39:02,209
presentation of making the impossible